[random84]

In for track results.

I'm sure they would look a lot like me doing a ~10-11 second pull on the street, except with a ~4 second 60-foot. If you have better data on your trunk tank conversion with before/after runs accounting for air temps, please feel free to post them!

But I'd like to add here that I'm not really selling HP or any of that stuff. Everyone's combo can be so different, this is just an example of what a trunk tank can offer over the "standard" underhood reservoir setups (moar capacity). I think we all recognize that lower IAT2 is generally a good thing, regardless of your power level, pulley ratio or mods list.

It's up to the end user to establish how well of a fit this particular modification is to their driving style and application.

 

[Black Moon]

Sold, this EMP will look exactly like the stock pump but EMP will be engraved on it!

That works. Check is in the mail. Go ahead and ship it. Lol

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[MeanMike]

I'm sure they would look a lot like me doing a ~10-11 second pull on the street, except with a ~4 second 60-foot. If you have better data on your trunk tank conversion with before/after runs accounting for air temps, please feel free to post them!

I won't be doing a trunk tank. My own conclusion after building an under hood tank is that the brick is the limiting factor. Basically for a drag strip pass, my temp rise and fall is probably a graph just like yours, just different magnitudes.

Preliminary results:

I am impressed! It took ~9 minutes for the IAT2 to budge from starting temps (75 degrees). I'm using the standard pump and have a marked kink in the hose (a crease sharp enough to gives it pointy corners) so I know (and can see) the fluid velocity is limited - but it's still remarkably good with better-than-expected recovery times.

Interestingly, on a 10-11 second WOT pull, with IAT2 starting at 79*F, fluid temps increased to a peak of 117*F before quickly dropping back down. Ambient was 65*F; this is lower than some of my baselines on the under-hood reservoir setup, where it would go to around 125-130*F depending on conditions.....

I think you meant IAT2 on the underlined. If you really are measuring water outlet temp from the brick, then I'm a moron.

On a recent 1/8th mile pass, my IAT2's started at 109, rose to 131 in 6.5 seconds (1/8th mile) and they drop back to 118 in about 20 more seconds of low speed coming back down the return road. Ambient was 85 that day.

Without getting too nerdy, I think the brick can't transfer enough heat to the water during a pull, so the air temp is climbing faster than the water temp. After you stop making heat, the IAT's drop rather quickly because the water temp didn't rise with the air. In my case having more water volume wouldn't help that because the brick can't transfer enough heat to the water to keep it from running away anyway. The two things that would help are a larger brick or a higher delta t (ice water). Measuring water inlet and outlet temp and air in and out temp would tell us for sure what's going on.

I have a different hair brained idea for cooling that I'll throw up in a few days once I get some cad drawings drawn up.

 

[Karch]

Measuring flow rate x temp change can yield BTU transfer.

 

[Black Moon]

I laid a bag of ice on my blower and ran my best half mile pass. I was looking for a way to make ice molds that slipped over the blower and were sealed. Freeze them, run them and just refreeze. LOL

 

[twokrx7]

I won't be doing a trunk tank. My own conclusion after building an under hood tank is that the brick is the limiting factor. Basically for a drag strip pass, my temp rise and fall is probably a graph just like yours, just different magnitudes.



I think you meant IAT2 on the underlined. If you really are measuring water outlet temp from the brick, then I'm a moron.

On a recent 1/8th mile pass, my IAT2's started at 109, rose to 131 in 6.5 seconds (1/8th mile) and they drop back to 118 in about 20 more seconds of low speed coming back down the return road. Ambient was 85 that day.

Without getting too nerdy, I think the brick can't transfer enough heat to the water during a pull, so the air temp is climbing faster than the water temp. After you stop making heat, the IAT's drop rather quickly because the water temp didn't rise with the air. In my case having more water volume wouldn't help that because the brick can't transfer enough heat to the water to keep it from running away anyway. The two things that would help are a larger brick or a higher delta t (ice water). Measuring water inlet and outlet temp and air in and out temp would tell us for sure what's going on.

I have a different hair brained idea for cooling that I'll throw up in a few days once I get some cad drawings drawn up.

Increasing the water flow rate thru the brick is the other variable that can improve heat transfer, use a reprogrammed EMP with all 1" hoses and make the inlet/outlet of the brick as large and high flowing as possible will make it perform better. If I get some dry time tonite I may do a run from 0-120mph and will report start and end IAT2 temps with my 3gal bumper tank and reprogrammed EMP ... lots of rain lately so temps are in high 70's lo 80's but humidity is 100%.

Enjoying the thread as usual Mr. Random!

 

[random84]

I won't be doing a trunk tank. My own conclusion after building an under hood tank is that the brick is the limiting factor. Basically for a drag strip pass, my temp rise and fall is probably a graph just like yours, just different magnitudes.



I think you meant IAT2 on the underlined. If you really are measuring water outlet temp from the brick, then I'm a moron.

On a recent 1/8th mile pass, my IAT2's started at 109, rose to 131 in 6.5 seconds (1/8th mile) and they drop back to 118 in about 20 more seconds of low speed coming back down the return road. Ambient was 85 that day.

Without getting too nerdy, I think the brick can't transfer enough heat to the water during a pull, so the air temp is climbing faster than the water temp. After you stop making heat, the IAT's drop rather quickly because the water temp didn't rise with the air. In my case having more water volume wouldn't help that because the brick can't transfer enough heat to the water to keep it from running away anyway. The two things that would help are a larger brick or a higher delta t (ice water). Measuring water inlet and outlet temp and air in and out temp would tell us for sure what's going on.

I have a different hair brained idea for cooling that I'll throw up in a few days once I get some cad drawings drawn up.

The brick is likely the limiting factor, but we also don't know how much heat each blower / pulley / head combo is creating (that the fluid is trying to cool) for each car - so comparing one vehicle to the next is problematic.

Those are decent numbers for what you state, Run a 1/4 mile and then note your IAT2 - odds are you're pulling timing at the end of the run. But if you don't street race or do the 1/4 mile, then it's a non-issue. Extra capacity also mutes the heat soak you get while staging, etc.

Also coolant will transfer heat differently (water vs antifreeze ratios, etc). And a larger reservoir of fluid will increase the relative delta over the run: smaller capacity heats up more quickly, larger capacity heats up more slowly in the same scenario so midway through the run the coolant temp is lower when you have larger capacity (the premise of a trunk tank). That ignores heat soak from the engine bay.

You're correct in that I am referencing IAT2 (not water temp directly ) - but it's the closest I can easily measure. Also I *assume* that IAT2 = water temp under steady state conditions, such as a long cruise... close enough anyway.

All I can say is that on a more or less unchanged setup, the extra capacity has helped so far. Given the variables involved and the assumptions we have to make, I'm running with that until I can prove otherwise.

As for the extra fluid velocity concern- well we'll see! But there is no free lunch and no perfect solution - just different ways of trying to accomplish the same goal!


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[twokrx7]

For what it's worth, I did a 0-120mph run (start was traction limited), starting IAT2 was 86F and ending IAT2 was 102F, ambient was 80degF, as soon as I let out it dropped IAT2s by what seemed to be 2 deg per 1-2 seconds until it dropped 6deg then I had to turn my attention to the road. I'll force myself to repeat this test a few times if the weather clears this week and will report back. Forgot, 100% water, no coolant, pulley combo is 2.55/9.1, reprogrammed EMP custom mounted behind exchanger, Prospeed/D3PE heat exchanger with 1" nozzles, D3PE 3 gal bumper tank with 1" nozzles, reinf brick with 1" in/out nozzles, all 1" silicone hoses. Given a few calcs, the 3 gal is plenty to supply cold water for a 1/4 mile pass, as long as the inlet and outlet nozzles are on opposite corners of the tank.

Second 0-120mph test started a bit heat soaked, had to wait around to get a clear launch pad ... starting IAT2 was 96F and ending IAT2 was 114F, ambient was 81degF and 100% humidity. We video'd the run and it took around 12 seconds, the launch was not much of a launch (spin city lol). The IAT2 seems to report in 2deg increments so my first two runs being within that 2deg suggests to me that's it's decent data for 0-120 runs.

I may go out again tonite and try a 0-130mph pass, I read earlier in here that's its normal to see 40deg delta on 1/4 mile pass and guessing my 680-ish rwhp pump gas V would trap higher than 120, I'll try 130-ish.

 

[random84]

For what it's worth, I did a 0-120mph run (start was traction limited), starting IAT2 was 86F and ending IAT2 was 102F, as soon as I let out it dropped IAT2s by what seemed to be 2 deg per 1-2 seconds until it dropped 6deg then I had to turn my attention to the road. I'll force myself to repeat this test a few times if the weather clears this week and will report back. Forgot, 100% water, no coolant, pulley combo is 2.55/9.1.

Can you edit your post to add your mods (ie underhood tank, pump, heat exchanger), as well as ambient temperature?

Those appear to be remarkably good IAT2 numbers for that pulley combo.

ETA your numbers are good with the extra capacity and maybe that EMP with 1" hoses is helping more than I would guess! [emoji1]

 

[twokrx7]

Can you edit your post to add your mods (ie underhood tank, pump, heat exchanger), as well as ambient temperature?

Those appear to be remarkably good IAT2 numbers for that pulley combo.

ETA your numbers are good with the extra capacity and maybe that EMP with 1" hoses is helping more than I would guess! [emoji1]

I know what I'm about to share is worthless but I'll share anyway ... when PatG did some follow-up tuning on my car we made a bunch of 140++ mph passes, he commented that my intercooler setup was one of the best performing systems he had experienced.

 

[random84]

Here's the kink I need to cut out:

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[blubyu]

Here's the kink I need to cut out:

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Creepy face!

 

[JSMach]

Those appear to be remarkably good IAT2 numbers for that pulley combo.

[emoji1]

Was thinking the same thing! If those numbers are legit that's fantastic.

My experience with a standard EMP pump and a 3 gallon underhood tank along with a Kaytech HX and ZL1 Lid were near thermonuclear meltdown by the end of the 1/8th mile (2.4 / 8.86 pullies). It was hot and humid out but just touching 115 deg in the the staging lanes, sitting at 122 after a burnout and running through the traps at 153 degrees (good bye timing) 7 seconds later. Granted the car is back to 115-120 degrees on the return road but either way when its hot and humid its a killer.

Glad to see the trunk tank makes a good dent in that, It was a toss up for me between trunk tank or Methanol injection......maybe I should do both!

 

[JSMach]

To be fair, the videos on my channel were just when I reprogrammed a pump. So it doesn't demonstrate the restrictions that a V would have since it's essentially an open loop.

I know it's not really on topic of this thread but I have to ask ......... you reprogrammed the pump yourself? I brought this up in another thread (I'm an Automation and controls guy by trade so I know there is no black magic or vodoo involved).... Figured it would be cheaper to source the cable / software than it would be to rebuy a programmed pump, but maybe i'm wrong.

Inquiring minds want to know

 

[hornetraider]

I know it's not really on topic of this thread but I have to ask ......... you reprogrammed the pump yourself? I brought this up in another thread (I'm an Automation and controls guy by trade so I know there is no black magic or vodoo involved).... Figured it would be cheaper to source the cable / software than it would be to rebuy a programmed pump, but maybe i'm wrong.

Inquiring minds want to know

Yes to the first question.

And no to the second, it would be cheaper to buy a reprogrammed pump. The service utility tool is expensive, and you have to be an authorized and licensed programmer through EMP.

 

[random84]

I know it's not really on topic of this thread but I have to ask ......... you reprogrammed the pump yourself? I brought this up in another thread (I'm an Automation and controls guy by trade so I know there is no black magic or vodoo involved).... Figured it would be cheaper to source the cable / software than it would be to rebuy a programmed pump, but maybe i'm wrong.

Inquiring minds want to know

Buy a reprogrammed pump. Tabio and others sell them for almost the same money as a standard pump.

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[800+ CTSV]

I see 130-150 degrees in the 1/4 mile with.

Florida heat & humidity
2.55 upper
10.5 lower
ALDO 5 gallon trunk tank
Rule 3700
7400 rpm shifts
Stock location H/X
zl1 lid -12
3/4 inch lines

 

[blubyu]

I see 130-150 degrees in the 1/4 mile with.

Florida heat & humidity
2.55 upper
10.5 lower
ALDO 5 gallon trunk tank
Rule 3700
7400 rpm shifts
Stock location H/X
zl1 lid -12
3/4 inch lines

What are your starting temps after its loaded down with ice and staged? I need a larger ice box

 

[cav454]

Hornetradier has HOOKED me up with several EMP's. I have a re programmed one on route to Aust for me again. His a top bloke

 

[twokrx7]

Here's the kink I need to cut out:

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Did you try putting a worm clamp on the hose at the kink? I've done it before and it can work but it takes some fiddling. If this is on the pump discharge side of the brick, the internal pressure will help expand the hose as well. The pump discharge hose on my setup upstream of the brick gets a hard on from the pump discharge pressure, noticeably soft on the outlet side of the brick, lots of pressure drop on that tiny lid heat exchanger if you get the flowrate up.