[MrSurly]

Can anyone tell me sizes, quantity or part#s or maybe a link to the Nordlocks that I will need? (being lazy)

 

[kittyboy]

Can anyone tell me sizes, quantity or part#s or maybe a link to the Nordlocks that I will need? (being lazy)

Based on my understanding, these are installed in pairs, two washers butted together, so two under head, two under nut, eight total for left and right sides. I have not taken measurements at this time, but in the case of this bushing installation it is good practice to insure that there are no threads common to the inner bushings, shank only. Because of the added thickness of the washers it is most likely that the bolt installed will need to be longer than the stock bolt length.

 

[MrSurly]

Based on my understanding, these are installed in pairs, two washers butted together, so two under head, two under nut, eight total for left and right sides. I have not taken measurements at this time, but in the case of this bushing installation it is good practice to insure that there are no threads common to the inner bushings, shank only. Because of the added thickness of the washers it is most likely that the bolt installed will need to be longer than the stock bolt length.

Thank you

 

[kittyboy]

Thank you

No problem, just got off the phone with Tacoma, these are sold in pairs. The current price for a pair is $4.87. I am in Everett, WA, so prices may be different at other locations.

 

[kittyboy]

No problem, just got off the phone with Tacoma, these are sold in pairs. The current price for a pair is $4.87. I am in Everett, WA, so prices may be different at other locations.

Also, if you get yours done before I do, let me know the bolt length you go with if installing stock GM bushings. Thanks

 

[MrSurly]

TheY are also available in carbon steel, I've found…. and MUCH cheaper.
I just ordered two 4-packs (4 pairs per pack) for under thirty bux thru wwgrainger.

They are sold in pairs and I learned that each pair is actually glued together.

The stainless version is here:

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Sudderth]

Yes, I love them

 

[a762user]

Why can't that aftermarket cradle have provisions for a sway bar!!

Right I even called them and asked if they could add that and the bracket for the ABS module he said no if he would have said yes I would have ordered it in a heartbeat

 

[kittyboy]

TheY are also available in carbon steel, I've found…. and MUCH cheaper.
I just ordered two 4-packs (4 pairs per pack) for under thirty bux thru wwgrainger.

They are sold in pairs and I learned that each pair is actually glued together.


View attachment 158295

The stainless version is here:
View attachment 158296

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Would you please, anyone, measure the OD of the 254 SMO SS washers, appears there is a 25mm and 30mm version, I previously referenced a 1.21" (30mm) OD zinc version. Off hand, does anyone have the diameter measurement of the flanged head stock GM bolt and nut? I want to insure I have the correct diameter washer listed, I realize that depending where the bolt is located in the slotted hole it may not sit flat against the surface if the washer is forced against the radius of the control arm, especially after a welded repair, may need to spot-face after the weld is added? Also I read that the washers are to be installed wet with lube.

 

[MrSurly]

The two grangers listings I posted are 1.21


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Sudderth]

That is what I used and they work great

 

[BigDuderShooter]

How is your sub-frame project coming along?

So what a project. Jeez man. I did indeed drop the subframe. You can weld in place but vertical tig welds are harder, and I had to preheat because I don't have a 300A welder. My shocks and control arms were already out at that point due to a planned shock replacement...haha that was supposed to be it. I had one crack in the driver side LCA small bushing arm forward tab...in that sharp radius. I welded up the outsides only on ALL arms, left and right sides. Even though those areas weren't cracked I don't ant to do this again in 2 years. So a total of 8 welds. I then heat treated the joint both sides to help normalize the stresses induced during the welding process. The casting used by GM is heat treatable and so 4043 aluminum filler rod works well. If the bead is deep enough there is really no need to do both sides. It will just add more heat to the structure and besides the new crack formation area will now be at the base of the beads, where it blends with the base metals at the outer edges. My welds are not perfect by any means but I think they will work and are gonna be stronger than the previous joint...especially the cracked one!

I installed the Creative steel red control arm bushing kit. They include these stainless steel shims or washers and the Nord lock washers that work pretty well. But the arms still compress during the torqueing procedure, 141 ft.lbs. The arms are always going to bend inward during tightening because there is compliance in the bushings...no matter the duro they will still compress somewhat. I imagine that with age the OEM GM bushings become more compliant and this induces more flexing causing cracks to form. They are indeed very flimsy joints, poorly machined to begin with. And then stuff 556hp into there.

While I was at it I figured I might as well replace the motor mounts. Took them out and they were both split, I thought that was perhaps part of the design. Maybe the weight compressed the two parts together or something. But nope, the new ones are completely solid. I used the genuine GM replacements.

At each point I'm like sh*t I have this apart might as well put these in right? So what started as just worn shock replacements ended up being:

1. Shock replacement
2. Eibach lowering spring installation
3. CS control arm bushings upper and lower
4. New ball joints upper and lower
5. Welded up subframe
6. Replaced motor mounts
7. New sway bar bushings

Got it back on the road after a long winter hibernation and two week front end overhaul on Tuesday and now the rear differential is grinding. I drained barely half quart of burned up oil out. I guess checking the rear diff level isn't part of the pre-sale inspection process at some dealerships. Anyone have a rear diff for sale?

 

[MrSurly]

So what a project. Jeez man. I did indeed drop the subframe. You can weld in place but vertical tig welds are harder, and I had to preheat because I don't have a 300A welder. My shocks and control arms were already out at that point due to a planned shock replacement...haha that was supposed to be it. I had one crack in the driver side LCA small bushing arm forward tab...in that sharp radius. I welded up the outsides only on ALL arms, left and right sides. Even though those areas weren't cracked I don't ant to do this again in 2 years. So a total of 8 welds. I then heat treated the joint both sides to help normalize the stresses induced during the welding process. The casting used by GM is heat treatable and so 4043 aluminum filler rod works well. If the bead is deep enough there is really no need to do both sides. It will just add more heat to the structure and besides the new crack formation area will now be at the base of the beads, where it blends with the base metals at the outer edges. My welds are not perfect by any means but I think they will work and are gonna be stronger than the previous joint...especially the cracked one!

View attachment 158360

I installed the Creative steel red control arm bushing kit. They include these stainless steel shims or washers and the Nord lock washers that work pretty well. But the arms still compress during the torqueing procedure, 141 ft.lbs. The arms are always going to bend inward during tightening because there is compliance in the bushings...no matter the duro they will still compress somewhat. I imagine that with age the OEM GM bushings become more compliant and this induces more flexing causing cracks to form. They are indeed very flimsy joints, poorly machined to begin with. And then stuff 556hp into there.

While I was at it I figured I might as well replace the motor mounts. Took them out and they were both split, I thought that was perhaps part of the design. Maybe the weight compressed the two parts together or something. But nope, the new ones are completely solid. I used the genuine GM replacements.



At each point I'm like sh*t I have this apart might as well put these in right? So what started as just worn shock replacements ended up being:

1. Shock replacement
2. Eibach lowering spring installation
3. CS control arm bushings upper and lower
4. New ball joints upper and lower
5. Welded up subframe
6. Replaced motor mounts
7. New sway bar bushings

Got it back on the road after a long winter hibernation and two week front end overhaul on Tuesday and now the rear differential is grinding. I drained barely half quart of burned up oil out. I guess checking the rear diff level isn't part of the pre-sale inspection process at some dealerships. Anyone have a rear diff for sale?

Great job! And welcome to The WYIT club!

 

[kittyboy]

So what a project. Jeez man. I did indeed drop the subframe. You can weld in place but vertical tig welds are harder, and I had to preheat because I don't have a 300A welder. My shocks and control arms were already out at that point due to a planned shock replacement...haha that was supposed to be it. I had one crack in the driver side LCA small bushing arm forward tab...in that sharp radius. I welded up the outsides only on ALL arms, left and right sides. Even though those areas weren't cracked I don't ant to do this again in 2 years. So a total of 8 welds. I then heat treated the joint both sides to help normalize the stresses induced during the welding process. The casting used by GM is heat treatable and so 4043 aluminum filler rod works well. If the bead is deep enough there is really no need to do both sides. It will just add more heat to the structure and besides the new crack formation area will now be at the base of the beads, where it blends with the base metals at the outer edges. My welds are not perfect by any means but I think they will work and are gonna be stronger than the previous joint...especially the cracked one!

View attachment 158360

I installed the Creative steel red control arm bushing kit. They include these stainless steel shims or washers and the Nord lock washers that work pretty well. But the arms still compress during the torqueing procedure, 141 ft.lbs. The arms are always going to bend inward during tightening because there is compliance in the bushings...no matter the duro they will still compress somewhat. I imagine that with age the OEM GM bushings become more compliant and this induces more flexing causing cracks to form. They are indeed very flimsy joints, poorly machined to begin with. And then stuff 556hp into there.

While I was at it I figured I might as well replace the motor mounts. Took them out and they were both split, I thought that was perhaps part of the design. Maybe the weight compressed the two parts together or something. But nope, the new ones are completely solid. I used the genuine GM replacements.

View attachment 158357

View attachment 158358

At each point I'm like sh*t I have this apart might as well put these in right? So what started as just worn shock replacements ended up being:

1. Shock replacement
2. Eibach lowering spring installation
3. CS control arm bushings upper and lower
4. New ball joints upper and lower
5. Welded up subframe
6. Replaced motor mounts
7. New sway bar bushings

Got it back on the road after a long winter hibernation and two week front end overhaul on Tuesday and now the rear differential is grinding. I drained barely half quart of burned up oil out. I guess checking the rear diff level isn't part of the pre-sale inspection process at some dealerships. Anyone have a rear diff for sale?

What an EXCELLENT post!!! You answered my main concerns with the welding, I was unsure the base alloy and filler rod selection. I realize no matter what, the unavoidable loss in yield strength based on my AlcoTec chart, appears you have good convex welds and termination beads, really nothing more can be done in this situation, no good alternative. You answered my thoughts about the inside arm weld question too. I plan to weld all of eight as well. I am still concerned about the flex and the 'always' potential for welds cracking, what else can you due when the stock design material thickness is so thin to begin with, and the sharp machined radius cuts? I was thinking about going with an after market steel tubular design cradle, but the fab shop that has the tooling set-up only communicates via email, and will not communicate via telephone. I am hesitant spending $2500 for a cradle from a shop 'PureFab' that refuses to answer the phone and communicate?
FYI: I have the CS engine mounts installed, seem to work well, definitely more vibration, but necessary at higher power levels.

 

[kittyboy]

So what a project. Jeez man. I did indeed drop the subframe. You can weld in place but vertical tig welds are harder, and I had to preheat because I don't have a 300A welder. My shocks and control arms were already out at that point due to a planned shock replacement...haha that was supposed to be it. I had one crack in the driver side LCA small bushing arm forward tab...in that sharp radius. I welded up the outsides only on ALL arms, left and right sides. Even though those areas weren't cracked I don't ant to do this again in 2 years. So a total of 8 welds. I then heat treated the joint both sides to help normalize the stresses induced during the welding process. The casting used by GM is heat treatable and so 4043 aluminum filler rod works well. If the bead is deep enough there is really no need to do both sides. It will just add more heat to the structure and besides the new crack formation area will now be at the base of the beads, where it blends with the base metals at the outer edges. My welds are not perfect by any means but I think they will work and are gonna be stronger than the previous joint...especially the cracked one!

View attachment 158360

I installed the Creative steel red control arm bushing kit. They include these stainless steel shims or washers and the Nord lock washers that work pretty well. But the arms still compress during the torqueing procedure, 141 ft.lbs. The arms are always going to bend inward during tightening because there is compliance in the bushings...no matter the duro they will still compress somewhat. I imagine that with age the OEM GM bushings become more compliant and this induces more flexing causing cracks to form. They are indeed very flimsy joints, poorly machined to begin with. And then stuff 556hp into there.

While I was at it I figured I might as well replace the motor mounts. Took them out and they were both split, I thought that was perhaps part of the design. Maybe the weight compressed the two parts together or something. But nope, the new ones are completely solid. I used the genuine GM replacements.

View attachment 158357

View attachment 158358

At each point I'm like sh*t I have this apart might as well put these in right? So what started as just worn shock replacements ended up being:

1. Shock replacement
2. Eibach lowering spring installation
3. CS control arm bushings upper and lower
4. New ball joints upper and lower
5. Welded up subframe
6. Replaced motor mounts
7. New sway bar bushings

Got it back on the road after a long winter hibernation and two week front end overhaul on Tuesday and now the rear differential is grinding. I drained barely half quart of burned up oil out. I guess checking the rear diff level isn't part of the pre-sale inspection process at some dealerships. Anyone have a rear diff for sale?

Would you also be kind enough to share your process for removing the cradle for welding, maybe some images? Thank you VERY much in advance!!!

 

[kittyboy]

Right I even called them and asked if they could add that and the bracket for the ABS module he said no if he would have said yes I would have ordered it in a heartbeat

You're ahead of the game, I could not get them to send me a number, only email correspondence. For the price seems they should have a number to call? Unfortunately, too cool for school I imagine, had similar experiences in the past with vendors 'too busy' to deal with the general public, more important clients to tend.

 

[a762user]

You're ahead of the game, I could not get them to send me a number, only email correspondence. For the price seems they should have a number to call? Unfortunately, too cool for school I imagine, had similar experiences in the past with vendors 'too busy' to deal with the general public, more important clients to tend.

Yeah I found the fact they had no direct phone number kind weird.

 

[MrSurly]

Yeah I found the fact they had no direct phone number kind weird.

Increasingly common these days as we have advanced into the digital age, many sellers now operate behind firewalls of webform and email mechanisms. As communication technology has become ever more capable of instant communication, retailers now are building barriers to direct access. Very frustrating. Try to call WeaponX or Rock Auto... their phones tell you go to the web page....their webpages say use email, we don't chat and by the way...we don't answer phones.

 

[BigDuderShooter]

The WYIT club!

The While You're In There club?

Would you also be kind enough to share your process for removing the cradle for welding, maybe some images? Thank you VERY much in advance!!!

Good deal, glad I could help someone else in return.

I have attached the removal and installation procedure form the GM service manual in pdf format to this thread. I have a lift, which makes this a lot easier, but it's not that bad and can be done on the garage floor with a jack. In addition I already had the shock struts removed and LCA and steering knuckle. Once those are all removed then you can work on the subframe. There are about 6 locations where there are either brake pipes or power steering lines or wire harnesses that are pinned to the frame, I use this tool to remove them. There's also the ABS module box that has two nuts and a hidden bolt.

Once the harness clips are removed the steering rack has to be unbolted, 3x. You will need to hang it with zip ties or some steel wire. Same thing with the radiator pack, it has to be supported. I just wrapped a tie-down strap around the entire assembly to the front clip and tightened it down. The engine has to be supported because you of course are removing support for the two front motor mounts. I used a bar across the strut towers, see below. There are bolt holes at the cylinder head behind Cyl 1 and 2 that you can use to hook into.

Then remove the subframe bolts, three per side plus the motor mount bolt. I left the two rear and two front bolts partially screwed into the subframe and then lowered the car onto the table seen below. I backed the screws out the remainder of the way and slowly lifted the car up with the frame being left behind. Took a little fenagling to get it to drop because it was still kind of wrapped in things a little bit.

The subframe only weighs about 35lbs so it can be moved around rather easily. But you'll want a jack to lower it out with or two dudes at least. I just put it back in in reverse, by lowering the car onto the frame.

Unfortunately now my differential is shot. Talk about deflating. I'll be posting another thread on that shortly. Apparently those things unavailable and just as hard to rebuild. I see MrSurly has some knowledge in that area.

 

[kittyboy]

BigDuderShooter thank you again for taking the time to articulate the process, share images, PDF, WOW! I can tell by looking in the background of your attached photos, this isn't your first modification and repair rodeo. I have a similar engine support beam purchased from Harbor Freight for $167.00, installed a new oil pan, worked well. Same as you, used the side head bolt holes (side head lift point bolt holes M10 x 1.5 pitch x 28mm/1.00"). I am seriously contemplating to build a tool and fabricate a steel cradle replacement at this point. I don't patronize "too cool for school" shops, I'm old school in that way, still shake hands too.