[Blades1_99]

Agreed

 

[translux]

The Hellcat is a great car for the money and now you can get it with the widebody package running 305 rubber which can put power on the ground even better than the V3.
Even for the interiors now you can get a leather wrapped dash and upper door panels with contrast stitching but still the V3 cabin is definitely way more upscale obviously.
In the end, you pay more for a significantly more sophisticated chassis, magic steering feel, way better interior, and the Caddy badge, not to mention the fact that the V3 is way more unique....is well worth it IMHO but still the Hellcat is not a bad car ad all.
Even on the engine side, I find the Hemi Hellcat more "vulgar" compared to the more refined LT4. The transmission of the Dodge is significantly better though...I really wish we had the new 10 speed on our V3s.....
That said, we are in the process of probably buying a Grand Cherokee Trackhawk for my wife, she currently drives a Grand Cherokee SRT and we been extremely pleased with it.

Even with the 305’s it’s nothing but spin city on the street. The V3 really puts down the power like nothing else with that much hp & torque that is only rwd. It’s really something special, even on a road course. I agree the transmission is the weakest point. If there’s ever a V4 maybe they’ll get it all dialed in.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Bowtye8]

I owned both ..16 challenger cat and 16 V..
Like above...The v was a better car.. felt on rails etc... Interior tighter fit.
But I will say I found myself driving the hellcat more often... Just the sound was fun factor.

 

[Force_Recon]

Long thread, but maybe it will help out a future buyer.
I just picked up a 2018 Charger Hellcat a while back and although I don't own a V3 I did spend a considerable amount of time driving one at a V-Lab event. In fact I got to know both the V3 and ATS-V fairly well inside out.

There are a lot of factors to consider when choosing between a V3 and a Hellcat. The V3’s hold their value much better and depreciate much slower, this make the V3 a more expensive car even if purchased used.

In regards to the interior the V3 wins hands down. While I have no regrets buying the kitty-cat however there isn’t much about the interior that makes me say wow. My car is black on the outside with red leather interior. It’s nice and Uconnect with the Performance pages is a big plus but I still like the V3 better.

As for cornering the win again goes to the V3 after all it was built for the track. Although I feel the Hellcat could probably hold its own at the track. Uconnect offers a track mode which stiffens up the suspension, firms up the shits, increases the shift points and turns off the traction nannies.

Look wise it’s all subjective. The V3 has a very refined and classy look especially with the carbon fiber package. The Charger on the other hand has a more muscular look to it and I’ve seen some killer looking ones with exterior mods which I’m in the process of doing.

So if I’m giving a lot of props to the V3 why did a buy a Hellcat? Several reasons. Though I did consider buying a V3, I instead bought a used fully loaded 2018 with 13k on the odometer for 49k. Try finding a 2016 V3 for that price & with that mileage that’s accident free.

The cornering didn’t bother me nor was it even a factor. I don’t plan to track the Cat and if did I did as mentioned before track mode would probably work pretty well. My plans are make it look mean from the outside and turn it into 1/8 and ¼ mile monster.

There is no shortage of mods and no such thing as the infamous “Cadillac Tax” that we pay. You can mod a Cat to make 1,000 rwhp for a lot less than you could a V3 and don’t even need to swap superchargers or spray to reach that goal. Hellcats come with iron blocks which you can punch out to a 426. If you crack the engine open and add a larger supercharger you could make over 1,200 rwhp. (Stock S/C is 2.4)

Even in stock trim it turns a lot of heads and catches a lot of attention. Charger Hellcats are less common than their Challenger counterparts and more expensive. The V market is a very small market and I see a lot of people struggling to sell their modded V’s. I’ve lots of people get stuck trying to sell them for a long time and in most cases they end up taking a bath in the sale of the car just to get it off their hands. I can assure you that won’t be a problem with the Hellcats. Even the heavily modded ones trade hands quickly.

Long story short the V3 just didn’t quite appeal to me enough to want to buy one, so I decided to skip it. Now the ATS-V coupe with the carbon fiber package…. that's one sexy caddy.

 

[justinschmidt1]

My question for you is though...IF you could have bought a V3 for the same price, would you be in the V3?

 

[Force_Recon]

My question for you is though...IF you could have bought a V3 for the same price, would you be in the V3?

No, I would not have. I wanted a high hp monster that when done I could sell without the risk of getting stuck with it for months. I looked into the cost of building a Max effort V3 and the cost we're going to be really high. Then there's the risk of selling it for huge loss because the market for these cars is small, which is my fear with my V2 coupe.

Since the goal was a high horsepower monster the Cat seemed the better fit. It already has the right steel block and large supercharger. Plus they trade hands quickly even the heavily modded ones so that alleviated that concern.

At the V-Lab it wasn't the V3 that won me over it was the ATS-V and that's the next caddy in my future. So I opted for hell kitty to satisfy my high hp straight line addiction and will get an ATS late this year to satisfy my curiosity to get into track racing.

 

[blubyu]

My question for you is though...IF you could have bought a V3 for the same price, would you be in the V3?

I just sold my hellcat Charger for 49k, it was a 2016 with 16k miles. To get a V3 for that price range it would be a whored out POS Black Raven V3 and I would never take that over my Hellcat. The Hellcat is a lot of car for the money and they hold their value well in comparison.

Have you driven one for an extended period of time Justin? Yes the base models are common on the road, only reason Cadillacs aren't because no one buys a shitty overpriced base model "high end" GM product with horrible tech.

 

[prdnme]

Well, this is an interesting thread. I was looking at a left over ‘19 WB Redeye yesterday. In just the short amount of seat time, the tech and driving refinement over the V2 is mind boggling.

 

[SimplyDreamin]

How long did you have the Cat, and what did you replace it with?

I just sold my hellcat Charger for 49k, it was a 2016 with 16k miles. To get a V3 for that price range it would be a whored out POS Black Raven V3 and I would never take that over my Hellcat. The Hellcat is a lot of car for the money and they hold their value well in comparison.
.

 

[blubyu]

How long did you have the Cat, and what did you replace it with?

9 months, I always buy used as I have car ADD. Taking a break from performance sedans after I looked at the new Ram pickups I bought one. That 12" screen and new styling with the sport package lured me in.

 

[Unavowed]

That 12" screen... lured me in.

I have no idea why the Ram infotainment system isn't in every FCA product. Chargers, Challengers, Durangos, Grand Cherokees, hell, put it the Pacifica.

 

[piening2150]

You can get a big ass screen in a Charger... if you're a cop. Also the only way to get an AWD V8 currently.

 

[justinschmidt1]

No, I would not have. I wanted a high hp monster that when done I could sell without the risk of getting stuck with it for months. I looked into the cost of building a Max effort V3 and the cost we're going to be really high. Then there's the risk of selling it for huge loss because the market for these cars is small, which is my fear with my V2 coupe.

Since the goal was a high horsepower monster the Cat seemed the better fit. It already has the right steel block and large supercharger. Plus they trade hands quickly even the heavily modded ones so that alleviated that concern.

At the V-Lab it wasn't the V3 that won me over it was the ATS-V and that's the next caddy in my future. So I opted for hell kitty to satisfy my high hp straight line addiction and will get an ATS late this year to satisfy my curiosity to get into track racing.

Gotcha, I get that, was just curious. I get the "high hp monster" part, its easier to make big power with the hellcats it seems with the factory blower and fueling is easier so if that was a priority I can see why you would go that way.

Im not really sure where you are getting your data that says there is no market for these cars and they dont sell. That hasnt really been my experience as I was in the market to buy one for a few months and anything priced well was moving very fast.. Carmax for w/e seemed to always blow the dealers pricing away for a comparable car, I probably saw half a dozen of them come up in the past 2 months through carmax nationwide and they seemed to be going within hours every time they came up.

When it comes to resale value having a lower production figure like the V3 seems like it would help value and demand over time, not hurt it. I mean look at the V wagons, have held value extremely well and have no problems selling at all now many years down the road. Ive never sold a hellcat, but just seems like theres a heck of a lot more of them out there than the V3s so would think that could hurt when trying to sell.

The ATSV is a fun car, I had one for a few years, amazing handling, responds great to mods, great track car for sure and thats where it shines, the V3 is just better everywhere else really. The ATSV just feels cheap in a lot of areas that GM skimped on. The gauge cluster sucks. The interior quality all around the materials are just worse. Interior is pretty cramped if you expect to use the back seats. The ride is borderline harsh for a cadillac. Id be lying if I said I didnt miss the noise of the big supercharged V8s over the boring v6 sound track. It got the job done but the engine never really feels special. Then theres also the concerns over long term reliability being a complicated one off TT V6 platform.

I just sold my hellcat Charger for 49k, it was a 2016 with 16k miles. To get a V3 for that price range it would be a whored out POS Black Raven V3 and I would never take that over my Hellcat. The Hellcat is a lot of car for the money and they hold their value well in comparison.

Have you driven one for an extended period of time Justin? Yes the base models are common on the road, only reason Cadillacs aren't because no one buys a shitty overpriced base model "high end" GM product with horrible tech.

It was just a hypothetical question, V3s cost more for sure, I wouldnt expect to get a comparable V3 for 49k.

I wouldnt say extended period, more of a long test drive situation. Theyre nice cars no doubt. I considered a hellcat charger many times.

 

[justinschmidt1]

Well, this is an interesting thread. I was looking at a left over ‘19 WB Redeye yesterday. In just the short amount of seat time, the tech and driving refinement over the V2 is mind boggling.

Yes, def huge improvement from a v2 to a hellcat or v3

 

[Kools]

well of course. you're talking about 2008 tech basically at the most. versus 2017 or so technology.
however. I really dig the widebody hellcat.

 

[blubyu]

When it comes to resale value having a lower production figure like the V3 seems like it would help value and demand over time, not hurt it. I mean look at the V wagons, have held value extremely well and have no problems selling at all now many years down the road. Ive never sold a hellcat, but just seems like theres a heck of a lot more of them out there than the V3s so would think that could hurt when trying to sell.

I wouldn't say V3's have held their value at all and neither have V2 sedans and coupes, even the non M6 Wagon craze has died down a lot.

There is a heck of a lot more HC's out there because IIRC they sold more HC Chargers in 2016 than total combined V3's across the 3 years they were in production. This may help V3's hold their value after the nearly 50% depreciation over the first 3 years but Hellcat Chargers have held value a lot better up to this point with 10x the volume out there. I feel like Mopar has a lot stronger following than GM in this sector and it sort of shows considering the Hellcat is on such an old platform and has been available since 2015 and they are still selling strong and selling more per year than the entire amount of V3's sold in which their are quite a few NEW ones still available.

GM made a hell of a car, to bad its GM and very few people care to pay 100k+ for a GM sedan no matter how it performs.

 

[saturno_v]

I wouldn't say V3's have held their value at all and neither have V2 sedans and coupes, even the non M6 Wagon craze has died down a lot.

There is a heck of a lot more HC's out there because IIRC they sold more HC Chargers in 2016 than total combined V3's across the 3 years they were in production. This may help V3's hold their value after the nearly 50% depreciation over the first 3 years but Hellcat Chargers have held value a lot better up to this point with 10x the volume out there. I feel like Mopar has a lot stronger following than GM in this sector and it sort of shows considering the Hellcat is on such an old platform and has been available since 2015 and they are still selling strong and selling more per year than the entire amount of V3's sold in which their are quite a few NEW ones still available.

GM made a hell of a car, to bad its GM and very few people care to pay 100k+ for a GM sedan no matter how it performs.

I think the V3 problem was simply not enough badge creed in the space where it competed (M5, E63 AMG, etc...),
The V3 was in no man land, too expensive for someone looking for cheap thrills (the Hellcat is a lot of bang for your buck at 65K but it ain't a M5 or AMG rival, imagine an hypothetical supercharged Chevy SS for a comparison) and not enough brand recognition to play at the same level with the big boys (from a marketing/public perception standpoint not on product and road dynamics where it is even better on some regards).

Mopar has definitely a larger fan base and it is positioned at a significantly lower price, on the other side, as i said already, many looking to spend north of 100K want the proper badge which Cadillac does not have or regained from a glorious past yet so if dealers wanted to move their V3 inventory they had to price them aggressively. With the V3 the business model has been the typical "push the product to the dealers" one. In contrast, I was looking at the new Audi RS6 and you know how many were allocated to the largest Audi dealer in Seattle for 2020?? Only 4...four with a pre-approved waiting list of over 20 people for that dealer....forget about discounts. But the Germans have the brand strength to pull that off, they can "afford" to operate in this way in the uber segments and get top dollars...even if the depreciation at the end is probably even worse than a Cadillac V car in the long run.

Interestingly enough, FCA is running into the same problem with the Jeep Trackhawk I'm shopping for my wife......I got a written proposal to get one on order for 10% off MSRP, many dealers are listing just arrived 2020s for 6 grand off and sometimes more....it was priced a bit too ambitiously, there are not many potential customers for a 100K (or close to 100K) Jeep, the market is still full of new 2018s sitting on dealer lots and some let them go for well over 20K off MSRP. Many dealers actually now refuse to stock them (there is only one Trackhawk left in the entire Northwest, from the Oregon-California border all the way to Canada) because it is a slow seller...the Germans definitely own that segment of the market.

 

[blubyu]

I think the V3 problem was simply not enough badge creed in the space where it competed (M5, E63 AMG, etc...),
The V3 was in no man land, too expensive for someone looking for cheap thrills (the Hellcat is a lot of bang for your buck at 65K but it ain't a M5 or AMG rival, imagine an hypothetical supercharged Chevy SS for a comparison) and not enough brand recognition to play at the same level with the big boys (from a marketing/public perception standpoint not on product and road dynamics where it is even better on some regards).

Mopar has definitely a larger fan base and it is positioned at a significantly lower price, on the other side, as i said already, many looking to spend north of 100K want the proper badge which Cadillac does not have or regained from a glorious past yet so if dealers wanted to move their V3 inventory they had to price them aggressively. With the V3 the business model has been the typical "push the product to the dealers" one. In contrast, I was looking at the new Audi RS6 and you know how many were allocated to the largest Audi dealer in Seattle for 2020?? Only 4...four with a pre-approved waiting list of over 20 people for that dealer....forget about discounts. But the Germans have the brand strength to pull that off, they can "afford" to operate in this way in the uber segments and get top dollars...even if the depreciation at the end is probably even worse than a Cadillac V car in the long run.

Interestingly enough, FCA is running into the same problem with the Jeep Trackhawk I'm shopping for my wife......I got a written proposal to get one on order for 10% off MSRP, many dealers are listing just arrived 2020s for 6 grand off and sometimes more....it was priced a bit too ambitiously, there are not many potential customers for a 100K (or close to 100K) Jeep, the market is still full of new 2018s sitting on dealer lots and some let them go for well over 20K off MSRP. Many dealers actually now refuse to stock them (there is only one Trackhawk left in the entire Northwest, from the Oregon-California border all the way to Canada) because it is a slow seller...the Germans definitely own that segment of the market.

I think the V3 problem was simply not enough badge creed in the space where it competed (M5, E63 AMG, etc...),
The V3 was in no man land, too expensive for someone looking for cheap thrills (the Hellcat is a lot of bang for your buck at 65K but it ain't a M5 or AMG rival, imagine an hypothetical supercharged Chevy SS for a comparison) and not enough brand recognition to play at the same level with the big boys (from a marketing/public perception standpoint not on product and road dynamics where it is even better on some regards).

Mopar has definitely a larger fan base and it is positioned at a significantly lower price, on the other side, as i said already, many looking to spend north of 100K want the proper badge which Cadillac does not have or regained from a glorious past yet so if dealers wanted to move their V3 inventory they had to price them aggressively. With the V3 the business model has been the typical "push the product to the dealers" one. In contrast, I was looking at the new Audi RS6 and you know how many were allocated to the largest Audi dealer in Seattle for 2020?? Only 4...four with a pre-approved waiting list of over 20 people for that dealer....forget about discounts. But the Germans have the brand strength to pull that off, they can "afford" to operate in this way in the uber segments and get top dollars...even if the depreciation at the end is probably even worse than a Cadillac V car in the long run.

Interestingly enough, FCA is running into the same problem with the Jeep Trackhawk I'm shopping for my wife......I got a written proposal to get one on order for 10% off MSRP, many dealers are listing just arrived 2020s for 6 grand off and sometimes more....it was priced a bit too ambitiously, there are not many potential customers for a 100K (or close to 100K) Jeep, the market is still full of new 2018s sitting on dealer lots and some let them go for well over 20K off MSRP. Many dealers actually now refuse to stock them (there is only one Trackhawk left in the entire Northwest, from the Oregon-California border all the way to Canada) because it is a slow seller...the Germans definitely own that segment of the market.

GM quality is the issue, you aren't going to lure in new buyers that are used to quality materials, fit and finish and dealer support with just a solid drivetrain that outperforms it competitors. BMW and Audi service is outstanding while GM is well we all know that. You can't expect to compete in the similar price range with your entire history being cheap plastic junk with awful service.

FCA's problem is they churn out too many of the Hellcat models. The first year they were getting ADM for them as FCA didn't flood the market and they sold like crazy. The following year they nearly doubled production and it kind of backfired even though they sold them all they had to run crazy lease deals and such and lose their ass to push them off the floor.

 

[justinschmidt1]

I wouldn't say V3's have held their value at all and neither have V2 sedans and coupes, even the non M6 Wagon craze has died down a lot.

There is a heck of a lot more HC's out there because IIRC they sold more HC Chargers in 2016 than total combined V3's across the 3 years they were in production. This may help V3's hold their value after the nearly 50% depreciation over the first 3 years but Hellcat Chargers have held value a lot better up to this point with 10x the volume out there. I feel like Mopar has a lot stronger following than GM in this sector and it sort of shows considering the Hellcat is on such an old platform and has been available since 2015 and they are still selling strong and selling more per year than the entire amount of V3's sold in which their are quite a few NEW ones still available.

GM made a hell of a car, to bad its GM and very few people care to pay 100k+ for a GM sedan no matter how it performs.

Im not a new car buyer so I tend to look at how cars hold value from where I would be buying the, a few years in after that 40-50% depreciation hit and moving forward from there, lol.

But yea, you are correct, if you look at new price the hellcats have held closer to their new price because they were priced a lot less to begin with id assume...100k is just too much for a V3 and the market adjusts quickly.

Im not sure why you say V2s havent done well, I mean theyre 10+ yrs old at this point and nicer examples with lower miles still can bring 35-40k Yes they were hit hard the first 2-3 years like most cars but after that ive always felt like theyve done very well.

Anyways, nobody can predict the future, my opinion is that having much lower production numbers should help the V3 retain stronger values moving forward from here especially with cadillac butchering the V brand vs hellcats but I could be wrong.

The V3 seems like a hell of a car in the 50s so I dont see these cars continuing to lose a ton of value rapidly at this point.

 

[blubyu]

Im not a new car buyer so I tend to look at how cars hold value from where I would be buying the, a few years in after that 40-50% depreciation hit and moving forward from there, lol.

But yea, you are correct, if you look at new price the hellcats have held closer to their new price because they were priced a lot less to begin with id assume...100k is just too much for a V3 and the market adjusts quickly.

Im not sure why you say V2s havent done well, I mean theyre 10+ yrs old at this point and nicer examples with lower miles still can bring 35-40k Yes they were hit hard the first 2-3 years like most cars but after that ive always felt like theyve done very well.

Anyways, nobody can predict the future, my opinion is that having much lower production numbers should help the V3 retain stronger values moving forward from here especially with cadillac butchering the V brand vs hellcats but I could be wrong.

The V3 seems like a hell of a car in the 50s so I dont see these cars continuing to lose a ton of value rapidly at this point.

I agree, if I could find a nice color with CF in the upper 40's to lower 50's with low miles I would be in the market later this year. It's a lot of car for the money.