#PIC5136P: Clicking Noise From Front Wheels - (Jun 13, 2014)
Subject: Clicking Noise From Front Wheels

Models: 2009 - 2015 Cadillac CTS-V Models


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This PI was superseded to add model years and update the recommendations/instructions field. Please discard PIC5136N


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The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the symptom(s) described in this PI.

Condition/Concern
A customer may comment on a clicking noise emanating from the front wheels. This condition is noticed at low speed (walking speed) during full wheel lock turns on dry clean pavement (Full lock parking lot maneuver). The clicking noise is generally noted as approximately 1 to 4 "clicks" per wheel revolution.

The CTS-V has lightweight high performance front rotors with an aluminum center. The clicking sound is caused by interaction between the wheel mounting face and wheel mounting surface on the brake rotor caused by the aluminum-to-aluminum interface.

With properly mounted wheels, and the wheel nuts torqued to specification, this “clicking” is NOT a safety issue.

Recommendation/Instructions
Note: Do NOT replace the front wheel or brake rotor for the clicking condition. The new brake rotors that were previously advised to be installed for this condition should no longer be installed. The recommended procedure is to now clean the front wheels and brake rotor mating surfaces as well as replace the wheel nuts for all four wheels on vehicles built prior to VIN breakpoint D0106083 if the vehicle did not already have blue cone wheel nuts installed as described below.

Procedure:

 1. Remove front wheels
 2. Clean wheels as follows:
a) Use a clean cloth dampened with GM Brake Parts Cleaner (P/N 19287400 or equivalent).

Note: Be sure NOT to use the scotch pads (Roloc disc) on the aluminum material. All cleaning MUST be done by hand. Do NOT use ANY air or power tools!

 3. Clean the rotor top hat as follows:
a) Use clean cloth dampened with GM Brake Parts Cleaner (P/N 19287400 or equivalent).

Note: Be sure to NOT use scotch pads (Roloc discs) on the aluminum material. All cleaning MUST be done by hand, do NOT use ANY air or power tools!

Note: Be sure to thoroughly dry the wheel and rotor prior to installation on vehicle.

 4. Reinstall wheels using replacement wheel nuts with P/N 9598179 (quantity 20 required for all 4 wheels) (these can be identified with a blue color on the inboard conical portion of the nut (see pic) and torque to spec, 150 Nm (110 lb ft). (If the vehicle already has blue cone nuts, do not replace them again.)
Note: If a car had the 2-piece rotors installed (Part number P/N 20795300 & 20795302) prior to the release of these "blue cone" wheel nuts and has a repeat wheel click concern, perform this cleaning procedure, replace the wheel nuts with the new blue cone nuts, and torque to spec 150 Nm (110 lb ft).

Note: Note: If the vehicle owner has installed a locking lug nut kit, a "blue cone" replacement locking kit (P/N 19259109) must be installed in place of owner’s added kit.

 

As far as how is that a solution, I'm not sure what the blue material is but I'm assuming it is some kind of friction reducing material that allows for less of the tightening torque to be taken up by friction, thus increasing the clamping load of the bolted joint.

 

FWIW, I have two sets of OEM wheels, one clicks and the other does not. This is with the same lugs.

 

Duh...I really apologize to you V Wagon (a terrific resource to us all), and all the guys. I was, once again, going too fast. Here's the answer right under my damn nose if only I would have just slowed down and did my homework before shooting off my big mouth.

Please accept my regrets for the waste of anyone's time. Won't happen again!

 

Forget this guys...V Wagon (again a great contributor) had already posted what I was asking for.

 

For what it's worth, mine clicked when i first got the car (used). Cleaning and the new torque specs fixed it.

 

Had I really posted that before? HAHA, I didn't even remember doing it honestly but the bulletin appears to have come out over 3 years ago so I could have posted it like 5 times since then and not remembered any of them. In other words, no worries.

 

I have that damn clicking noise, but it sounds like it's coming from the rear passenger side.

 

I had a clicking from the rear. Turned out the dealer didn't properly tighten the half shaft bolts when doing the diff swap. One bolt was missing and the retainer deal that is under each pair of bolts was flinging out and hitting the cradle causing my click! SMH. Fucking bastards at Prestige Cadillac gave me a lot of grief when I took it back to them to get them to fix their fuck up too.

 

I have the MRR polished Z28 wheels and mine started clicking about a month ago. Been to lazy to investigate.

 

I cleaned and used some a very small smidge of anti-seize and it went away for me

 

Cleaned the rotor hats and tightened lugs. Click is gone.

 

I still clean the rotor hats and apply anti-seize twice a year, when I switch betwen winter and summer wheels. Has worked like a charm for my almost 8 1/2 fun years of V ownership!

 

Saw this thread before...didn't notice the mention. Thank you very much. BUT - I have to say...like so many others, I joined this forum a relative noob to performance cars. One of my fav quotes is, paraphrased: "If I have seen far, it is because I have stood on the shoulders of giants." VERY applicable here. The original innovators and trial-and-error guys went way ahead of me, tried new things, found out what worked and not. I learned from them, and they deserve the credit.

Now...onto the wheel click. Its like chicken pox - we all had it at some point.

I think the GM procedure(s) have been posted. They work, sorta. Clean with ONLY solvents like brake cleaner, replace with blue lugs, overtighten (I go to 145 ft lbs), usually works but click might come back later on.

Like others - I put a thin layer of anti-seize or lithium grease on the mating surfaces and this works for a very long time. Since these are hub centric wheels the hub bears the weight and the friction with the mating surfaces is less critical. WARNING: use caution with lubricants when using spacers and the like that might lessen the strength of the OEM design. Even hub centric spacers with additional lugs give me a little concern. Many have run them without incident. But YOUR car might get more grip on the road, you might have sticky tires, better roads - just enough to snap something and cause a crash. We don't want to see a crash thread!

Actually - I do both. Clean the surfaces with brake cleaner and apply lithium grease. I put a tiny amount on a rag and apply it like I would wax - a thin layer almost too thin to see. But its enough to protect the metal-to-metal interface that causes the issues.

 

I recently bought my car and didn't notice the clicking right away but in the month or two I had it Im not sure if it got a lot worse or I just noticed it more. Was definitely very noticeable when turning right but not left for some reason and mine seemed to come only from the front drivers side wheel.

Either way I just had new tires put on and the clicking is completely gone, I assume the tire monkeys just smashed the lug nuts on with an impact gun to like 100000 ft-lbs like normal but if it comes back Ill deal with it and try the white lithium and proper torque.

On another note, I always thought that regardless of hub centric or lug centric the resistance to shear force was completely reliant on the friction of the hub mating surface on the wheel. The different styles are just how the wheel is located centrally to prevent wobble. I am a mechanical engineer but reading some posts online seems like they say the opposite but I don't know if I believe that.

I have designed mating surfaces for gearbox output flanges in robot arms and things that see tons and tons of shear force and the bolts themselves should never see any shear force, only pure tension. In hub centric design, if the little hub flange is taking up all the shear force then why are the hub centric spacers that come with aftermarket wheels made of flimsy plastic? haha and I have had good luck before with no vibration just using no hub centric spacer on wheels as long as I used the cone lugs/nuts.

Anyway sorry I love my tangents.

Hope your clicking goes away with the new tires like mine did.

 

Gave up on my wheels after 4 trips to the dealer...each time they would clean/torque/replace lugs/etc. Front wheel clicks would go away until a spirited drive with curves, then come right back with a vengeance, After the fourth time, when the michelins were worn, sold my factory wheels and switched to square 18" Nurburgrings with aftermarket lugs...haven't heard a click since in 7k miles.

 

It's worth noting that the root cause of the issue is the forged aluminum to aluminum interface - the contact between the aluminum rotor hats and stock forged aluminum wheels. If you buy different wheels, its quite possible the wheel click will go away. My Forgelines are forged aluminum, just like the stockers. And just like the stockers, they have the same wheel click issue because the rotor-to-wheel interface is raw, uncoated aluminum.

 

This same issue is getting progressively worse on my 2014. Glad I searched instead of starting a new thread.
Going to talk dealership with the PI in hand... Thanks V Wagon!

 

Was there a TSB somewhere that said to torque to 158 ft/lbs?

 

i'm just over 45k miles now and have been to 2 dealerships several times for the clicks. in every case, they clean then re-torque. it's a royal pia. people think you're driving a hooptie! this last time, they also replaced my locking lugs with a non-locking set. we'll see but my expectations are measured.

 

Does anyone know exactly it is that causes the clicking? Wouldnt think the wheels could shift on the studs, but is that what's happening? Is the harder metal of the forged wheels causing a sort of compression effect on the aluminum hub while turning? It would really be nice to know the root cause of the clicks...

 

is the clicking a constant clicking? I have had a sound since installing new rotors that remind me of cards in bicycle wheel.

 

That's exactly what it sounds like...in fact I've used that analogy multiple times in trying to describe it. For me, it would only happen when turning. Annoying at low speeds in a parking lot, and unnerving when cornering hard at 25 mph in the mountains. Am very curious to know the actual cause

By the way, what kind of wheels are those on your V?

 

Thanks, wheels are ISS Forged SpeedSter RS