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Nice Tri. I agree that there must have been some issue with the Model S in the test results. Is there anyway we can get Teslas response to these results? Id be very interested in seeing this.

Be careful with the assessment of an 800V system and less heat. Remember physics is physics. Hp can be converted directly to wattage and wattage directly to heat (BTU/hr). A motor making X amount of horsepower at 800V may need half as much current as an equivalent hp motor at 400V but they both are making the same BTU/hr all else equal. The main advantage to going to higher voltage is the much smaller conductor size to carry less current. Hence less weight and maybe less cost in conductors. However the insulation value must be greater which can negate the smaller conductor cost.

Something I would be interested in seeing is the carrier frequency they are running the inverters at during these acceleration tests. Improving motor efficiency with a higher carrier frequency from the inverter is possible. Lower rotor losses and lower THD from a more sinusoidal inverter waveform output. But there is a caveat. The inverter has a very drastic derate from much higher switching losses at higher carrier frequencies.
 

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Nice Tri. I agree that there must have been some issue with the Model S in the test results. Is there anyway we can get Teslas response to these results? Id be very interested in seeing this.

Be careful with the assessment of an 800V system and less heat. Remember physics is physics. Hp can be converted directly to wattage and wattage directly to heat (BTU/hr). A motor making X amount of horsepower at 800V may need half as much current as an equivalent hp motor at 400V but they both are making the same BTU/hr all else equal. The main advantage to going to higher voltage is the much smaller conductor size to carry less current. Hence less weight and maybe less cost in conductors. However the insulation value must be greater which can negate the smaller conductor cost.

Something I would be interested in seeing is the carrier frequency they are running the inverters at during these acceleration tests. Improving motor efficiency with a higher carrier frequency from the inverter is possible. Lower rotor losses and lower THD from a more sinusoidal inverter waveform output. But there is a caveat. The inverter has a very drastic derate from much higher switching losses at higher carrier frequencies.
Boom! And therein lies the magic. No one to my knowledge has really torn apart the inverter and relates components to study very closely exactly what is happening.

Companies like Munro Associates have done a little. But my guess is that Tesla (and Nio and Koenigsegg) would be the kind of players that would do some pretty sophisticated waveform wizardry. I'm betting what's happening is precisely like you suggest - instead if doing, for example, a pure sine wave, there are a lot of transforms, timing, and other games you could play to optimize the tradeoffs between power, heat, efficiency, and so on.

What Musk seems to have a knack for it finding extremely simple and elegant ways to do fairly complex tasks. Their ingenuity is like what you see with Koenigsegg (and NO...no one should think I'm comparing the two AT ALL!).

I'm somewhat convinced that at the end of the day someone will eventually do some solid reverse engineering of the code and logic on these different platforms. I'm dead curious how they are doing things "in the tune" so to speak. Just like with gas engines and their ECU's, a lot can be accomplished just in the config/code/mappings/etc.

On social media, there are a few guys like @greentheonly and @brownsoylent on Twitter that appear to have some good expertise at rooting or otherwise hacking in a bit. Green is very much a programmer type with a lot of background in operating systems and similar, from Linux to Windows to mobile platforms. Fairly young guy and quite a few people have met him and know him personally.

That Soylent person (unsure if guy or girl) runs some kind of engineering firm and from what I can gather has built a pretty sizable fortune doing all kinds of work in aerospace, nuclear, and mechanical engineering. Best I can tell s/he employs some unknown number of staff, likely more than a few dozen and probably in the low hundreds, mostly scientists and engineers best I can tell.

S/he keeps everything really private, supposedly due to NDA's with their customers. But his/her account correctly called Tesla's plans to build a plant in China way before it happened. And correctly called out when the plant would be up and running months before it actually happened. A lot of similar tweets kinda give me and many others the impression this account is the real deal.

As you can imagine, there's a metric assload of pre-teenage boys, fanbois gone wild, and every other color, shape, size, and flavor of Tesla twitter accounts out there. So sorting out the legit and knowledgeable ones from the trash is a monumental challenge.

Mostly with Tesla you have to work up a step at a time. At first the signal to noise ratio seems completely insurmountable. But if you have patience and persistence it will come around. For me I had money on the line so that was a motivating factor. The other side of that coin was knowing as much as possi le

Has his/her own private jet (or corporate jet?) - I seem to recall a pic or two of it somewhere along the way. I think it's like a Global Express 8000 or maybe a Gulfstream 5 or 6. S/he apparently has been to Tesla's China factory many times and has been nearly 100% correct on how that buildout went.

The firm seems to get contracts everyone from hedge funds to competing OEM's do assess and analyze stuff. Seems mostly cars and such. His/her account on Twitter is marked "private" so you have to request access to follow. As long as you support clean energy and sustainability and aren't an asshole, s/he seems to accept follow requests. I was able to get the ok so most of you cunts should slip under the radar.

Alright, that's enough for one night and I'm tired AF.

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Boom! And therein lies the magic. No one to my knowledge has really torn apart the inverter and relates components to study very closely exactly what is happening.

Companies like Munro Associates have done a little. But my guess is that Tesla (and Nio and Koenigsegg) would be the kind of players that would do some pretty sophisticated waveform wizardry. I'm betting what's happening is precisely like you suggest - instead if doing, for example, a pure sine wave, there are a lot of transforms, timing, and other games you could play to optimize the tradeoffs between power, heat, efficiency, and so on.

What Musk seems to have a knack for it finding extremely simple and elegant ways to do fairly complex tasks. Their ingenuity is like what you see with Koenigsegg (and NO...no one should think I'm comparing the two AT ALL!).

I'm somewhat convinced that at the end of the day someone will eventually do some solid reverse engineering of the code and logic on these different platforms. I'm dead curious how they are doing things "in the tune" so to speak. Just like with gas engines and their ECU's, a lot can be accomplished just in the config/code/mappings/etc.

On social media, there are a few guys like @greentheonly and @brownsoylent on Twitter that appear to have some good expertise at rooting or otherwise hacking in a bit. Green is very much a programmer type with a lot of background in operating systems and similar, from Linux to Windows to mobile platforms. Fairly young guy and quite a few people have met him and know him personally.

That Soylent person (unsure if guy or girl) runs some kind of engineering firm and from what I can gather has built a pretty sizable fortune doing all kinds of work in aerospace, nuclear, and mechanical engineering. Best I can tell s/he employs some unknown number of staff, likely more than a few dozen and probably in the low hundreds, mostly scientists and engineers best I can tell.

S/he keeps everything really private, supposedly due to NDA's with their customers. But his/her account correctly called Tesla's plans to build a plant in China way before it happened. And correctly called out when the plant would be up and running months before it actually happened. A lot of similar tweets kinda give me and many others the impression this account is the real deal.

As you can imagine, there's a metric assload of pre-teenage boys, fanbois gone wild, and every other color, shape, size, and flavor of Tesla twitter accounts out there. So sorting out the legit and knowledgeable ones from the trash is a monumental challenge.

Mostly with Tesla you have to work up a step at a time. At first the signal to noise ratio seems completely insurmountable. But if you have patience and persistence it will come around. For me I had money on the line so that was a motivating factor. The other side of that coin was knowing as much as possi le

Has his/her own private jet (or corporate jet?) - I seem to recall a pic or two of it somewhere along the way. I think it's like a Global Express 8000 or maybe a Gulfstream 5 or 6. S/he apparently has been to Tesla's China factory many times and has been nearly 100% correct on how that buildout went.

The firm seems to get contracts everyone from hedge funds to competing OEM's do assess and analyze stuff. Seems mostly cars and such. His/her account on Twitter is marked "private" so you have to request access to follow. As long as you support clean energy and sustainability and aren't an asshole, s/he seems to accept follow requests. I was able to get the ok so most of you cunts should slip under the radar.

Alright, that's enough for one night and I'm tired AF.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
Switching frequency would be in the firmware in the inverter not on the Linux/whatever RTOS Tesla uses for the “ecu”. You would probably need a scope on the inverter output to find out the switching frequency (or possibly just a microphone)

And like the other dude said there are trade offs going one way or the other. It’s not really wizardry. Higher switching frequency gets you higher motor efficiency but worse inverter efficiency.
Lower switching frequency you get less switching losses in the inverter but if you get too low the audible noise would be unacceptable and you lose motor performance and can even be bad for the motor.
Industrial drives are usually between on the order of 2.5 kHz -25khz (obviously some can be higher or lower).
This is for normal silicon IGBTs, there are newer more efficient and more expensive GaN or SiC FETs that have much lower switching losses that can get much more sinusoidal (because of the higher frequency pwm) without being so inefficient but they have their drawbacks too and I doubt Porsche or Tesla are using them (yet).




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I thought that was the whole point of this forum...to poke each other and get a rise! C'mon man...I'm just messing with ya!

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Why are you acting like such a Cunt?

Do you even V anymore, Brah?

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Hopefully everyone knows Brooks from Drag Times. Here is his latest vid matching a brand new Shelby GT500 against a Tesla Model S identical to mine.

Watch the vid for full details. I'll add some.& extras later on...but he covers eveything.

Net:

  • No loss of power across multiple passes
  • Car ran 0-60 in 2.41 seconds, just like mine
  • Car ran very consistent passes
Something is up/wrong with the C&D test vehicle.


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Yeah man...my game is def off.

Seriously - always ok to call a brother out to keep us honest! I'll keep working on it!

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Seems to be a perfect summary on Tesla by the inventor of the V series and legend.


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I agree it almost seems like mass psychosis and feels just like bitcoin in 2017.
And also agree with his quote:
“Despite his bearish view on Tesla's industry, Lutz praised the automaker's products. "There's nothing wrong with the car," he said. "It is one of the best-driving, best-performing, best-looking premium sedans in the world."

I keep trying to get up the balls to buy long puts on Tesla but can’t bring myself to do it.
I am confident the bubble will pop on the stock but I am not confident the psychosis will end anytime soon.




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A long time ago I mentioned the renowned Jim Simons in the investment thread. Many had perhaps not heard of him. Look him up. Charges a whopping 40-50% in FEES to invest with him and he has still returned nearly 40% per year since the 1980's. Yes - FORTY. Plus another 50% for his own pockets. He puts Buffett to shame.

As of end of 2019 his firm owned about 4 million shares of Tesla. The most successful investor in history doesnt buy frauds and slapstick companies. If I have a choice to align with him or some other firm or advisor, I'm going with Jim. Period, full stop.

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In for the "to the moon, Alice!" Bandwagoning!

Some big money investor has some - you should, too!

It's only getting started - these massive gains will only keep going up up up!

Hmmm... This thread is starting to sound like one of those late night infomercials selling gold or silver - circa 1980. Maybe a commemorative Tesla-branded coin to celebrate all the gainz?



Or... on second thought- maybe it's a good time to take profits? I'm just talking out loud from a cynical side-line perspective; I do not have any financial stake in Tesla (that I know of)... I just feel like when everyone is going on about how awesome something is like the press TSLA has been getting, it's a warning sign.

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Lutz understands the auto industry better than any of us, I trust he knows what he is talking about.

Tesla stock is massively profitable until it is not.


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Tesla is not in the auto industry?

Should EV’s be the moving computer industry?




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Everyone knows tesla is a TECH company and TECH stonks only go up!

The tech industry LITERALLY cant go tits up! Lol

Def not .com bubble 2.0


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Tech company or Auto company, they both need to meet FMVSS requirements.


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Tech company or Auto company, they both need to meet FMVSS requirements.


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Yeah but i dont think you heard me...STONKS ONLY GO UP!

Yolo all in on TSLA chooo chooo


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