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PS - anyone know how to lower my battery pack 1/4 inch?

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Throw a golf ball at it?



Elon: say, let's make the world's ugliest pickup - no, like seriously, as ugly as fucking possible - and accidentally break the "ballistic" windows on reveal! Yeah, it will be an inside joke just to see if some dipshit actually buys this thing! lolololo- wait, what, the stock went up? We have HOW many deposits???

It's like they're selling tulips or something.
 

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Throw a golf ball at it?



Elon: say, let's make the world's ugliest pickup - no, like seriously, as ugly as fucking possible - and accidentally break the "ballistic" windows on reveal! Yeah, it will be an inside joke just to see if some dipshit actually buys this thing! lolololo- wait, what, the stock went up? We have HOW many deposits???

It's like they're selling tulips or something.
They are either selling tulips or two lips


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Throw a golf ball at it?



Elon: say, let's make the world's ugliest pickup - no, like seriously, as ugly as fucking possible - and accidentally break the "ballistic" windows on reveal! Yeah, it will be an inside joke just to see if some dipshit actually buys this thing! lolololo- wait, what, the stock went up? We have HOW many deposits???

It's like they're selling tulips or something.
Have you read Munro & Associates assessment of the truck? From a design and manufacturing standpoint their view is pretty favorable. Aesthetics sure - I can see tons of people who don't like it. And yet ugly cars can still sell like crazy if they offer the right features and price.

I bet some tradesmen will love being able to weld shit directly to that SS exoskeleton...time will tell. It's not for me, but also not for me to judge those who find it useful or even likeable.

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For a while I literally changed my social media name to

Tri "TulipFarmer" Texan...

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Never has this been more applicable than now. I just checked and Tesla is up to $887... which is so far past batshit crazy I am thinking of betting on the order of $50k on a short position. There is no way this is sustainable and the last time I saw something so overbought was the crypto bubble that popped 2 years ago.


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Fucyouuys.

:D

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For example, the Hummer EV will be able to update everything Tesla can on a model S.

1000hp isn’t that far behind Tesla. But it will be 18 months to launch yet, so you got a point.




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The question is what would GM charge you for those updates? Tesla is keeping all their vehicles in their fleet up to date on similar software which many automakers could be doing now but charge customers for ECU/Radio/Trans/Etc updates. if you start charging then you already lost the customer base.
 

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Wow...this thread got lively again! As an owner of two Teslas, everyone on both sides has valid perspectives. There are def build and design quality issues with both of our cars.

But after reflecting, my V had build issues too. From rattling superchargers to cheap black plastic that a fingertip could scratch to tail lights that pulled away from the bodywork.

GM had few solutions to the dozens of known problems. Owners more or less solved some of them with GM following their lead with "TSB" fixes.

Now I'm hearing if you want the latest SuperCruise features, you have to buy a whole new 2021 Caddy. Really? That's scary. But part of making cars truly updateable means eschewing knobs, buttons, and switchgear. Hardware controls create inherent limitations to altering the car's behavior at a holistic level.

And after watching Audi's eTron SuperBowl commercial, I don't see them as a threat lol! The Porsche commercial wasnt special at all. I looked at a Taycan at my local dealer and TBH, build quality of my Tesla was better in many ways. The Porsche's full glass roof wasnt properly shaped, meaning the roof glass didnt match up with the windshield and rear window glass. The gaps were inconsistent and it was too high in some places along the joint. Too low in others. You can even see this issue in Porsche's own commercials - the attached pics are actually from their promo vids on YouTube.

Is my Tesla perfect? Hell no. No car is really. But its damn good as a daily. I came THIS close to buying an Audi S8+. Bought this instead and glad I did.

We always said cars don't have to make other people happy, they have to make YOU happy. And even when someone else's mods made us wanna puke, we were supportive (mostly lol!). These cars make people truly happy, and at the end of the day that's all we can ask.

As for whether Musk/Tesla is a fraud - I'll remind everyone that this is PRECISELY what people on Wall St said of Amazon and Bezos. Ask anyone with some history in NY - everyone said Amazon was a Ponzi scheme, that Bezos would run out of money, and the "big boys" like Wal Mart and others would crush him. It didnt play out that way and Amazon isn't a Ponzi scheme. Tesla is the Amazon playbook all over again.

Regarding short sellers - you guys are right on point. Short sellers do provide a valuable market function. But many of them (but not all), are also assholes. They are the most pessimistic, entrenched, my-way-or-the-highway bunch of slimeballs I've ever known. But I know a few personally that are decent people.

It's not the short selling that angers me. It's the rooting for failure, the active work they put in to discredit and outright falsify information. From claiming Musk has thyroid cancer to Tesla faking their sales and financials, I've seen some insanely stupid crap. If you don't think thousands of people have complained to regulators from the SEC to NHTSA in a hundred different ways, you've underestimated the short sellers.

It's the unethical behavior, the negativity, and the downright useless, worthless, and life-sucking nature of these people I cant stand.

This forum, by contrast, and while tough as hell, was always a positive place to come. You cheered each other on, helped each other out. Supported exploring every mod path in search of opportunity and mo powah. I love that. I respect that. And I'll fight against anyone that gets in the way of car enthusiasts being happy.

Now do I think Tesla's stock valuation is legit? Um no...I've been transparent that it's way out of whack with reality. But regardless, that is a function of VERY real money pouring into Tesla. Like many billions. That's not some small time hobby investor. These are people with huge research teams. I don't see firms and probably sovereign funds with billions on the line and deep resources at their whim pumping billions into a fraud.

Yeah yeah, Enron and WorldCom and shit. I live in Houston so I experienced Enron first hand. But for every person who claimed they correctly called the Enron fraud, they missed a hundred other more obvious frauds. That doesnt make them right about Tesla or most other calls they make. It means even a blind and deaf analyst finds a fraud every decade or so.

So I propose we quit bitching about Tesla. It doesnt make us better friends and it doesn't make us better gearheads. We should stick to what made us a great group, and which still does - that we help each other seek happiness with our rides....even if our various tastes induce a little stomach illness. I really appreciated and respected that about this forum.

And we can still disagree about things for sure. That's always been a cornerstone. We just have to make sure those disagreements aren't personal and disrespectful. For various reasons, Tesla seems to bring out our less desirable traits. Less aspire to be better than that.

So I'll take Larry's point about Tesla not doing things at the same level as other automakers. And the points about profitability are also valid. Let's address those head on and not get too bent out of shape about things. After all, if we are buying Teslas and modding V's, these are 1st world problems we should be grateful to have. Many nations are still hoping for seatbelts and paved roads. We have it really good no matter what we are driving.

My $0.02.

-=TT=-


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My two V's that i've owned have honestly been the two worst built but most fun vehicles I have ever owned. My wife Compass in many aspects was better built than my V2. Our Tesla had and has some build issue, but I work for another OEM and every car i see from every normal automaker has some level of issues. That' part of what happens when you build in large numbers.

I have worked at 4 OEMs both German and US companies and most things are straight tire fires until they get to production. I think the only difference is my CEO doesn't say anything about it and Elon mentions it. We like out model 3, its one of the best driving vehicles I have ever owned. It's far from perfect but at its price point I'm not sure what is.
 

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I work with capital equipment OEM's (automated manufacturing machines) and I think it is just all OEM's in general are tire fires lol.
Sometimes I wonder how anything gets made at all with all the incompetent people and poor leadership.
 

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Discussion Starter #832
For the record GM sucks to work with , but I can say musk and Tesla are worse in my direct experience and when musk calls directors, VP’s and President with his “whoa is me, I need a cost save” it’s pathetic.




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My two V's that i've owned have honestly been the two worst built but most fun vehicles I have ever owned. My wife Compass in many aspects was better built than my V2. Our Tesla had and has some build issue, but I work for another OEM and every car i see from every normal automaker has some level of issues. That' part of what happens when you build in large numbers.

I have worked at 4 OEMs both German and US companies and most things are straight tire fires until they get to production. I think the only difference is my CEO doesn't say anything about it and Elon mentions it. We like out model 3, its one of the best driving vehicles I have ever owned. It's far from perfect but at its price point I'm not sure what is.
Well said - it's possible to totally love a car that is of even sub-par build. My V2 was the same - I loved it. Not because it was perfectly built, but because it was perfect for ME. It held all the qualities I wanted. It was fast, it was over the top, and a bit "irreverant" as far as cars go.

And for all its faults I like the Tesla too. Which is kinda strange because its radically different from everything I loved about the V. Despite my apparent fanboism, I loved the raucous exhaust note and the smell of E85 and lots more. But I also love the silky smooth torque of electric and the complete absence of vibration at a stop. And the traction is beyond perfect. Compared to the equally insane rolling burnouts of the V.

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Stumbled upon this recently. Not even sure if this is 100% legit. There are too many grammatical errors in Teslas response and honestly looks like a really bad PR move if its true.

Here's the scoop since I know the story.

A person bought the car from Tesla new. Original buyer ordered all the options. Later decided to return it under Tesla's "drive it for 7 days or 1000 miles - return it if you don't love it" policy.

Tesla then sold the car at auction (for w/e reason? - I don't know). When Tesla does this, they deactivate some features to sell it quickly at the lowest price. Buyers can then pay for and reactivate the features if they want. Logic is - why force the options and extras on buyers if they don't want them? Esp when they can reactivate them anytime.

The buyer at the auction was actually a non-Tesla dealership, not a private party. That dealership then sold the car to another person and did so as having ALL original features, pointing to the Monroney sticker and not the auction details as evidence. The lacking features were known to both parties at time of sale but the selling dealer told the buyer it was "just a glitch" and Tesla could fix it. So they went with it. Bad move.

Not sure how the rest plays out, but we know for sure Tesla didn't just randomly shut off a feature on an owner. I can see how it might seem that way, but the actual story is not as some reports portray...

Such is the complexities of having cars with features that can change on the fly. I agree that a car with fixed and unchangeable features wouldn't fall into this mess. But that's not the car most Tesla shoppers want to buy in the first place. So it is what it is....

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Regardless, after keeping up with this thread, I am going to suggest a model X to my wife soon. She loves her ‘13 Highlander, and was planning to replace it with a Lexus hybrid SUV beast with a third row (her mom has the two row baton).
My wife hates to drive. It does nothing for her. I’m not convinced we will need a third row (haven’t yet, since 2013).
I’m a fan of Rivian, but I’m not sure if that SUV will suit her. It may, if we do not look into her moving on and the Rivian is out. The Highlander will become our third, my “bad weather” car, until my 8 year old daughter is driving.



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Regardless, after keeping up with this thread, I am going to suggest a model X to my wife soon. She loves her ‘13 Highlander, and was planning to replace it with a Lexus hybrid SUV beast with a third row (her mom has the two row baton).
My wife hates to drive. It does nothing for her. I’m not convinced we will need a third row (haven’t yet, since 2013).
I’m a fan of Rivian, but I’m not sure if that SUV will suit her. It may, if we do not look into her moving on and the Rivian is out. The Highlander will become our third, my “bad weather” car, until my 8 year old daughter is driving.



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My wife has one. She loved her Audi for the size/form factor. The X is bigger which isn't her preference. Surprisingly though, she LOVES AutoPilot. I was almost certain she wouldn't. She has a fairly long drive to and from work, and after using it for a couple of months she says it cuts her traffic stress to nearly zero.

Me personally - it feels more like a gimmick at the moment. It needs to mature a lot before most folks will get any value from it. But for my wife and a mostly highway commute, she says its huge.

Another thing I thought she would hate is the funky Falcon doors. She's very conventional/traditional in most things and doesnt like new/strange stuff. But she likes the doors a lot. East to get stuff in and out and they work anywhere regular doors do, and are superior in many cases.

My take: Don't sweat any preconceived notions.

And you can get the 3rd row in the X but it's only for small kiddos. Looks cool tho with the captain style pedestal chairs in the middle. Also costs a chunk more.

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Here's the scoop since I know the story.

A person bought the car from Tesla new. Original buyer ordered all the options. Later decided to return it under Tesla's "drive it for 7 days or 1000 miles - return it if you don't love it" policy.

Tesla then sold the car at auction (for w/e reason? - I don't know). When Tesla does this, they deactivate some features to sell it quickly at the lowest price. Buyers can then pay for and reactivate the features if they want. Logic is - why force the options and extras on buyers if they don't want them? Esp when they can reactivate them anytime.

The buyer at the auction was actually a non-Tesla dealership, not a private party. That dealership then sold the car to another person and did so as having ALL original features, pointing to the Monroney sticker and not the auction details as evidence. The lacking features were known to both parties at time of sale but the selling dealer told the buyer it was "just a glitch" and Tesla could fix it. So they went with it. Bad move.

Not sure how the rest plays out, but we know for sure Tesla didn't just randomly shut off a feature on an owner. I can see how it might seem that way, but the actual story is not as some reports portray...

Such is the complexities of having cars with features that can change on the fly. I agree that a car with fixed and unchangeable features wouldn't fall into this mess. But that's not the car most Tesla shoppers want to buy in the first place. So it is what it is....

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Ok, so I found the thread on the Tesla forums of this actual event. I dont get on as often as I used to otherwise I would've seen the discrepancy between the article and the actual events. Without spending days reading that entire thread my takeaway is that this will come down to whether it was clearly stated at the auction that Tesla can disable certain options. Then bidders can bid in "good faith". If the dealer knew this upfront then I believe the onus is on them to make this particular case right. However, I would also question whether Tesla should just be charging a reactivation fee rather than the entire option cost a second time. Otherwise, that car could get sold 5,10.... however may times and is it right to charge the entire option fee rather than just an activation fee.
 

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Sounds like the dealer didnt cross their Ts and dot the I's.

But it's also wierd for a car maker to be able to retroactively change the available options for the used market. I guess its good in a way if you want those options later - but still a caveat emptor situation.



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