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It’s obvious Tesla is fast approaching a cross roads.

The technology is incredible but I was never confident that a car company could make it using a software development process.

My opinion all along is a major OEM would need to buy Tesla to be manufactured at a profit.

What do you guys think?

Survive or die?



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So Tesla the car company or including powerwall etcetera?

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Tesla will most likely never be profitable without continued government subsidy, it was only ever meant to be a profit vehicle for the employers of our corrupt politicians. I'd throw in an lol but its tough to laugh about the theft of our tax dollars.
 

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Tesla will be profitable every quarter moving forward. The FUD needs to be put to rest.
Quoted for posterity.


Because NFW. Although there may be an upside if Musk is muzzled and/or they get a major cash infusion from the Saudis.

But that will take another 1-2 years, and based on their debt load and cash burn thats 18 months too long?

I personally expect them to go bankrupt, discharge the debt while Elon keeps his millions and another established supply chain acquires the tech for pennies on the dollar- only the investors and current owners lose.

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I think we as a society are better off having Tesla for what they have shown is possible from a technology standpoint, but as far as being profitable, and standing on its own as a vehicle manufacturer, and not merely a division of a larger energy company, I don’t think it will survive.

I can see it being bought and then become a division of another car company where they have a lot more experienced engineers and relationships with the needed manufacturing experience and infrastructure, but perhaps contract with Musk for batteries.

But, I’m just along for the ride, no interest in owning one nor stock in the company, though I guess I have invested, passively, through my federal and state taxes.


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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
A coworker got a midlevel Model 3. Wow, fit and finish is subpar.

Can’t fake quality in automotive anymore.

The company I work for supplies Tesla and they make their own rules. If Tesla fails it hurts a supply chain that has supported them for years.

They are closing in on the end of the government subsidies.

Who would buy them? Most big OEM’s already have same technology and plans to go full electric in the future.

I still can’t Imagine the death of the ICE. I have owned a hybrid and it was cool when gas was $4+ , but I don’t miss it.

I think what really pisses me off about Tesla is how they Beta test using their customers.

Reckless to market and brag about autonomous driving when its not even close to being ready. FMVSS needs to step in and shut it down until the technology is bulletproof.

But like watching a train wreck, I can’t wait to see Musk’s next scam.

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I just drove 960 miles with the family and several hundred pounds of luggage in slightly under 14.5 hours, including all stops and a segue to a nearby airport.

How long would that have taken me in a Model X, including a recharging stop or two?

ETA: the SUV gets 300 miles per charge - probably less in the mountains with luggage. So if the supercharging is to be believed it probably would only add a few hours to the trip. That's not horrible if I loved electric.

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Tesla will most likely never be profitable without continued government subsidy, it was only ever meant to be a profit vehicle for the employers of our corrupt politicians. I'd throw in an lol but its tough to laugh about the theft of our tax dollars.
There aren't any subsidies. We could talk about the oil industry. Some people say the ev tax credit is a subsidy, but it goes to the consumer, not the manufacturer. Zev credits are a joke.
 

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My opinion all along is a major OEM would need to buy Tesla to be manufactured at a profit.
Every other car maker has been trying with their own established engineering, manufacturing and supply chain infrastructures already in place.

Am I missing something? Beside the fast-charging, is there anything actually ground breaking about them as CARS? Tesla is using lithium ion batteries - old (but mature) technology and electric motors like everyone else. There are thousands of standard 18650 cells the floor. So he makes them himself.

Here's what I'm anxious to hear, long term. A lithium ion battery's max number of charge cycles is measured in the hundreds and performance drops-off sharply as that number goes up. Doesn't that mean that there will never be a 10 year old Tesla (or any e-car) that was a daily?
 

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There aren't any subsidies. We could talk about the oil industry. Some people say the ev tax credit is a subsidy, but it goes to the consumer, not the manufacturer. Zev credits are a joke.
Carbon credits alone are huge ... pure mafia, how these criminals steal our tax dollars while the sheep applaud.
 

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Anyone else suspicious about Musk's actions as of late? First he tweets about having the backing to take the company private which seems to not exactly be truthful, then you have his breakdown confession he's working himself to the bone to keep it going. Seems odd someone who has played the image game so well, have two big missteps in a few weeks.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Is musk driving the stock price down so he can buy it back cheap?

He is doing something shady.


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There aren't any subsidies. We could talk about the oil industry. Some people say the ev tax credit is a subsidy, but it goes to the consumer, not the manufacturer. Zev credits are a joke.
In essence, when Tesla sells its 200k car the price goes up $7500.

$7500 subsidy would sway my buying decision on any vehicle.


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Somehow I just knew tritex would find the bmw Seat picture
My point is that everyone has issues. We've discussed all the various "known issues" with the Gen 2 CTS-V. GM knew about all of these. Did they fix them? No. Did we just get on with life? Yes.

Does the Gen 2 overheat and pull power when driven hard on a track? Yes. Will it fry the stock brakes? Yes. Will the diff overheat? Probably.

The wheel click existed for 5 years. Why? Its downright embarrassing when a BMW owner says your wheels might fall off. My 2nd wagon has the same $1000 faulty tail light my first one did.

Didn't the CTS-V have rear quarter panel rust and paint bubbling issues? Finish issues are universal. My factory hood has paint bubbles and it's been off the car most of its life.

I could go on (and on)...

The Gen 3 V and new Z06 had reported overheating issues too and they were supposedly factory track weapons.

Look...this is a car forum. We know that EVERY stock model comes with issues and we mod around them or address them.

Last month the Model 3 outsold the BMW 3 series, Audi A4, Merc C class, and Jag XE class combined. One bad door panel is statistically not an issue.

Perfection is generally not the goal as it's too expensive in all but a few industries where the situation calls for it. What we have to look at are facts and data.

So...will Tesla survive? I give it 50/50. Tri out - I'll let the rest of you guys take it from here.
 
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