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As I was driving home yesterday I had an epiphany of sorts. Anytime the weather is below say 45 degrees ambient, my car (stock everything) is basically like an ice skate until above 3rd gear. So that made me ponder, what the hell do you guys with 600+ and especially 700+hp do with all that power? I guess it gives you the ability to break loose the tires at 80mph.

I'm aware that tire selection has an impact (I'm on extreme contact's 285's in the back) but cannot maintain any kind of traction if I get over ~50% throttle. I can't wait until I get the chance to do some mods but often times I wonder how useful it would be on a DD.
 

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It depends on how you daily drive. The majority of the time, Im not putting more than 30% pedal down. If anything, I drive much slower at 740hp than I did when it was stock. Quick passes before a lane ends, passing on two lane roads, etc. isn't really a thing for me in the V anymore. Maybe if the road is nice and warm and there are no cars coming the other way. 1st and 2nd on dry warm roads on MT ET/SS 285/18s are completely useless if youre trying to squeeze in an opening real quick.

My car isnt a daily though. I also typically drive around calmly to avoid drawing too much attention until Im feeling like getting rowdy. The car is so composed when it does lose traction, that can be a little enjoyable from time to time too though.
 

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I wonder the same thing. Guys showing up to be coached in c7 vettes with 700+ HP, makes it interesting. It's a great time to be alive with car choices and now with AWD and hybird you will see a stock car > 1000 HP soon. Insane HP but completely unusable without electronics.
 

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My tune is fairly docile under 2500rpm, so daily driving is no more exciting than stock (maybe even a little less, as it takes the car a split second to clear its throat because of the cam). First gear is still mostly useless, but I can tool around in 2nd and 3rd all day and never chirp a tire. On the highway, though, you're crusing in the power band, and the extra 100 (or so) HP makes pretty much all passing a no downshift event. Every so often, someone will pull up wanting to play, and that's where the extra ponies earn their keep.
 

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I wonder the same thing. Guys showing up to be coached in c7 vettes with 700+ HP, makes it interesting. It's a great time to be alive with car choices and now with AWD and hybird you will see a stock car > 1000 HP soon. Insane HP but completely unusable without electronics.
I never understood wanting to learn to road course in a high HP car. It makes it extremely difficult to learn how to drive fast properly if you’re constantly having to manage your traction as well. A solid 150-250hp S2000, Miata, etc is a great car to learn to drive fast on because the momentum helps you find the fast line and that fast laps don’t always feel fast until you see the time.


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Spinnin ain't winnin. When you get beat light to light by Model 3's, you may come around.
That’s just not what a build my cars for anymore. The fun in that died when any tool could start using his paycheck to cover up the lack of driving skill. Also being responsible for a couple of members of the next generation has curbed a lot of my risk taking in the past several years.

I guess in the end, be honest about what you want and how much you’re willing to compromise to get it. When I was younger, anything with AC, sound deadening, stock seats, etc was for chumps. I liked that the floor pan got so hot my shoes would stick to the asphalt when I got out after a couple of highway runs.

Not so much anymore. I want to feel engaged but in a climate controlled and fairly quiet environment. I don’t mind extra maintenance and tinkering but I don’t want to sweat my ass off driving the car around in the summer anymore.


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I think the core of this discussion is linked to "essence" of why some cars are considered "drivers cars" vs not. It's the balance of hp, tire, and the ability to not feel like the car is attempting to kill you. Obviously some prefer more or less of the last item, but in general, nobody wants a car that requires 10/10s attention to drive at 6/10s performance.

I'll provide some examples. The e39 M5 is recognized as one of the best drivers cars for a variety of reasons, but I think a core issue is that it is predictable in it's power delivery (flat torque curve with power everywhere), and it has enough HP stock to rip the tires loose whenever you want, if you choose to, but it's controllable and easy to work with, even without any nannies. Obviously there are a lot of chassis/weight balance, and overall "feel" of the car pieces that work in tandem, but the overall package is one that people can feel comfortable turning the nannies off and ripping without scaring themselves.

Similarly, the s2k can get a little sideways on demand, but it's never going to try to kill you, and In general, it could only really do this when pushed a bit. Similarly I think this is one of the reasons why the BRZ was so critically received is that while it's perfectly happy to be pushed to the limits and on the stock tires you can have a bit of predictable fun at the limit, as soon as you add more tire, it's boring and doesn't have enough power to do anything.



I think the v2 fits this in general, although I think many would argue that in stock form maybe it loses a little bit of fun factor to an e39 m5 because of the higher power making no nanny mode a rarer driving experience, but it makes up for it with the "comp mode" where you still have some protection from truly fucking up. I would say this is where tire is more critical, and what the OP said about feeling like they're on iceskates, that's 100% because you're on the wrong tire for the weather. I can do a full 2nd gear pull in my stock wagon with my winter tires, and unless it's wet, I get full traction. Summer tires are not usable below about 50*F

I personally think that turbo cars add a fun factor in the "ramp rate" of power delivery, which is unpredictable and provides a bit of excitement, but most of my higher HP turbo cars have all been AWD, and with that, it balances the unpredictable nature of power delivery out with a natural ability to compensate for it.

And this is where I think the future will go, more and more electronic nanny settings that let you have some fun, but with a safety net. I think the days of "push once for everything off" are definitely gone.
 

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My car only makes max power during the nice weather when I'm going to the track regularly. It does that with E85, 2.45/9.1, aggressive timing and drag radials. For November through February, It gets 93, a 2.55 upper and a lot less timing everywhere it's making power (as much as 10* less at peak torque). So I'm probably killing 100 hp. Even then, I drive it with a lot of respect and Michelin PS4's.
 

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As I was driving home yesterday I had an epiphany of sorts. Anytime the weather is below say 45 degrees ambient, my car (stock everything) is basically like an ice skate until above 3rd gear. So that made me ponder, what the hell do you guys with 600+ and especially 700+hp do with all that power? I guess it gives you the ability to break loose the tires at 80mph.

I'm aware that tire selection has an impact (I'm on extreme contact's 285's in the back) but cannot maintain any kind of traction if I get over ~50% throttle. I can't wait until I get the chance to do some mods but often times I wonder how useful it would be on a DD.
Point #1, yeah, summer tires under 45*F of course the traction isn't there. I coulda told you that long ago.

Point #2, in warm months, with my Contis (or stock michelin rubber), the car was perfectly planted, never had issues with traction (at mostly stock as well).

Point #3, when it got colder, I had winter wheels/tires to use on the car, still had a good amount of traction, but also not hot dogging it most the time anyway.
 

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I think the core of this discussion is linked to "essence" of why some cars are considered "drivers cars" vs not. It's the balance of hp, tire, and the ability to not feel like the car is attempting to kill you. Obviously some prefer more or less of the last item, but in general, nobody wants a car that requires 10/10s attention to drive at 6/10s performance.

I'll provide some examples. The e39 M5 is recognized as one of the best drivers cars for a variety of reasons, but I think a core issue is that it is predictable in it's power delivery (flat torque curve with power everywhere), and it has enough HP stock to rip the tires loose whenever you want, if you choose to, but it's controllable and easy to work with, even without any nannies. Obviously there are a lot of chassis/weight balance, and overall "feel" of the car pieces that work in tandem, but the overall package is one that people can feel comfortable turning the nannies off and ripping without scaring themselves.

Similarly, the s2k can get a little sideways on demand, but it's never going to try to kill you, and In general, it could only really do this when pushed a bit. Similarly I think this is one of the reasons why the BRZ was so critically received is that while it's perfectly happy to be pushed to the limits and on the stock tires you can have a bit of predictable fun at the limit, as soon as you add more tire, it's boring and doesn't have enough power to do anything.



I think the v2 fits this in general, although I think many would argue that in stock form maybe it loses a little bit of fun factor to an e39 m5 because of the higher power making no nanny mode a rarer driving experience, but it makes up for it with the "comp mode" where you still have some protection from truly fucking up. I would say this is where tire is more critical, and what the OP said about feeling like they're on iceskates, that's 100% because you're on the wrong tire for the weather. I can do a full 2nd gear pull in my stock wagon with my winter tires, and unless it's wet, I get full traction. Summer tires are not usable below about 50*F

I personally think that turbo cars add a fun factor in the "ramp rate" of power delivery, which is unpredictable and provides a bit of excitement, but most of my higher HP turbo cars have all been AWD, and with that, it balances the unpredictable nature of power delivery out with a natural ability to compensate for it.

And this is where I think the future will go, more and more electronic nanny settings that let you have some fun, but with a safety net. I think the days of "push once for everything off" are definitely gone.

Good writeup and I agree.

The BMW V8's are linear in power delivery, thus very manageable. Put that in a balanced chassis = winning formula. I agree the Gen 2 V's had a similar formula but on the cusp of in your face with the boosted motor. apples to oranges. The gen 2 V's had gobs of motor with the 6.2L and I would love to see someone put that motor in a race prepped E46M3 Chassis <2700 lbs. Kapow!

The future is hybird / electric and the HP numbers are insane, add instant torque and you really have a handful. Going to be interesting to see how it plays out. I still can't watch formula E and I am wondering how the racing scene will looking in the next 10 years. Thats racing across all forms, road, rally, drag, nascar, you name it. The technology will be insane and the HP huge. Any predictions?
 

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I tend to eat more veggies than meats in my old age, but I find vegans really annoying.

Likewise, I could see myself driving an AWD EV for the fun and tech, I just have a hard time stomaching the Tesla brand for a variety of reasons.
 

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Point #1, yeah, summer tires under 45*F of course the traction isn't there. I coulda told you that long ago.

Point #2, in warm months, with my Contis (or stock michelin rubber), the car was perfectly planted, never had issues with traction (at mostly stock as well).

Point #3, when it got colder, I had winter wheels/tires to use on the car, still had a good amount of traction, but also not hot dogging it most the time anyway.
Totally agree. My V is a daily driver with slightly over 600 rwhp and there's only 4 or 5 days a year I won't drive it due to Northern weather conditions. You learn how to drive with part throttle and not hot rod around town, yet have fun when you want to. Winter tires are essential for cold weather. I also watch tire pressure closely during changing seasons. On the other hand you get to have fun under the proper conditions. When I drove the Tail of the Dragon I was able to put it in third gear and leave it for the whole run. Plenty of power to pull out of a 15-20 mph corner with the rpm range to run up to 60 or more on the very short straights. A really fun drive.

You learn how the throttle responds and driving in all weather and road conditions becomes second nature. Let me use my other vehicle for an example. My TBSS has a 3600 stall. I let a friend use it and he complained about not being able to leave a stop light without it taking off at what seemed like full throttle. Yet for me it's a perfectly docile truck. You learn how your vehicle reacts to throttle input for daily driving, but have the power on tap when the situation warrants it.
 

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There is much wisdom here.

In addition to the V, I have a tuned Shelby GT500 that is pretty useless under 60 degrees. But I have learned to appreciate running up the revs in each gear at 25-30 percent throttle, and enjoying the engine sound and feel vs going WOT all the time and cheating death. And as another poster pointed out - I have offspring that need the old man to keep paying the bills.

My V is stock, and as the OP points out, can’t hold traction until it’s running about 50 mph. But it’s still an amazingly comfortable rocket ship, and I just adjust my driving for the colder months.

Unfortunately these cars are so strong that they find subsonic speeds very quickly, so long third gear pulls will land you in prison quickly, and are just flat dangerous when the tires and road are cold.

My favorite car is now my F type R AWD, which puts all its power down all the time. Even in First gear, the car won’t chirp a tire, and rips off mid 3 second 0-60 pulls with ease, regardless of the weather. I really think the ideal car would be an AWD with the ability to shut off FWD when the mood strikes to do some burnouts or drifts. But all other times that AWD makes for less pucker-induced driving during the colder months.

Be careful out there.


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Me? I just brag about it.

 

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You guys are the exception not the norm when executing with the throttle.
Because we're old. If I had this car 20 years ago I'd be dead.
 
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