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We need to get Opparia back in here to chime. He said his is completely resolved.

We should ask him what he has other than the arms.

Trans tune. Tire size. Etc
 

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Discussion Starter #322
Yeah I have a v2 sedan and wagon. the v2's are solid no matter what power. The V3 was very discouraging and I was over it but during last round of mods its straight as an arrow. Did 15" conversion & reprogramming of chassis control module at same time.
I trust this man I’ll be ordering the arms soon and seen where that takes me then 15’s next year.


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I trust this man I’ll be ordering the arms soon and seen where that takes me then 15’s next year.


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Please keep us posted, I did some spirited driving today and would love to find a solution to the instability at speed. Hesitant to order the arms in case it's not a fix for all.
 

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Discussion Starter #324
Please keep us posted, I did some spirited driving today and would love to find a solution to the instability at speed. Hesitant to order the arms in case it's not a fix for all.
I’m a little hesitant also because its $1k and everyone’s butt feels things differently. Go ahead with your jokes lol. BUT go on BMR’s website and look at how much that stock rear suspension moves around when launching. It’s crazy. So I see it as investment in a car I’m going to keep a long time. I’m dedicated to make it handle as it should.

Ive spoken to flntv many times and he expressed how much of a handful the car was at the track. My car has felt great at the track, it’s the highway it has felt bad on. So if he thinks his feels great I’m pretty hopeful.

It’s the chassis control module I’m not sure how I’m going to handle.


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Please keep us posted, I did some spirited driving today and would love to find a solution to the instability at speed. Hesitant to order the arms in case it's not a fix for all.
The negative way the car reacts while spinning was the first thing I noticed about the car , other than that it handles pretty well around corners etc, hope we can get this straightened out, I ordered the arms last month. I do love this vehicle, such a excellent motor and design. Unique , I very seldom see other 3rd Gen V’s


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Have any of you found a replacement toe rod with poly bushings? I would think the heim joint would short lived on the street..
 

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Just ordered the BMR toe rods. I'm planning on changing them and then doing a full test drive to determine what amount of correction they add prior to alignment. Will report back.
 
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Philip Adams posted a good review of the Carlyle Arms on one of V3 Facebook groups, I am reposting here with his permission. Of particular interest - he mentions " ZL1 1LE solid aluminum cradle bushings" as a direct replacement. I know we've been searching for solid bushings and this might be the fix. I've asked him to post an update on the bushings after he has installed them.

I recently got the Carlyle suspension arms installed on my 2018 V3 wanting a “bit” more handling manners before adding a “bit” more power. Some of you nut jobs have 900hp+ at the wheels (and I hope to be one of you someday BTW) and snapping off 10-sec time slips at the track... it’s hard to find information that makes you want to buy suspension parts vs a TVS2650, a meth/e85 addition or drag radials.

I researched and scoured the internet unable to really find the answers I was looking for about this thing. So, I figured that I would offer this review to pay it forward.
I guess it’s valid to mention my driving experience. I’m no professional track junkie but I have had a number of 500-700+Hp vehicles, done HPDE at Sonoma Raceway, Laguna Seca and in Las Vegas, and drag racing in Sonoma, Sacramento Raceway and Topeka, Kansas.

The Carlyle kit consists of Tubular upper and lower trailing arms, upper control arms, and toe rods are also provided in the kit. The arms and rods, constructed of .200-inch thick DOM steel for optimal strength, feature high-quality Heim joints sourced from QA1 and replace the thin factory stamped steel pieces.

I had JRG Motorsports install the kit and was eager to get behind the wheel when I picked it up. Unfortunately, with traffic in the San Francisco Bay Area, I was able to drive spiritedly but, not at the levels that would really test it out. With that said, the highway ramps and NVH levels were not bad at all given that the a significant part of the factory mush was pulled out.
The steering felt crisp and the turn in is noticeably more responsive/crisper. It doesn’t feel night and day different at this level and that’s a good thing. But it’s definitely noticeable and adds to some extra confidence/stability where you want it. Just felt really planted.

Yesterday I was able to take it out for a better test drive. I have a 1/2 mile country road that I live off of and I was able to crack off a few good WOT blasts and a few high speed and tight turns. This partial account is my non-compensated experience with this mod.

As I warmed the car up and rolled out to my favorite spot, I was thinking about how the PTM is really a catch-22. On one hand, it has saved many (including me) from putting it into a wall. On the other hand, the PTM says all the traction is in use and the steering wheel angle means less power for you. Tapping my way through the options, I was ready.
Staged and nail it.... As the Michelin PS4S tires spun looking for traction, the rear did not step out. None of the typical twisting and loading up in the rear and that “booty twerk” that was familiar with the former stock configuration. I did this a few times up and down the road and there’s a definite difference.

On the last stretch....40-60-80-100... on the BRAKES HARD!! There’s a 20mph hairpin turn to get on the freeway at the end of this road before a short ramp merges you with traffic speeding down the mountain.

That felt different! As the car slowed down, it felt as if the suspension responded by squatting its rear end down evenly with the front end dive and scrubbing speed off for the turn.
Maybe a little too enthusiastic with the performance so far, I must have thought I was Randy Probst and entered with too much entry speed on a turn that I am extremely familiar with.
Stock, IMO, the car handled well. As long as your entry, apex turn in and exit speeds were good - the car was fast and entirely predictable. Get that wrong, however, and it would respond in that “booty twerk” and immediately pull the rear left and right until it stabilized or it would yank the timing out as a penalty. Your unconscious reaction is to hit the throttle more and ask for more power trying to overcome the bog.

However, now, the body leaned and squatted into the suspension at the apex... all the while the Michelin PS4S tires howling away. Hell yeah! Unwind the wheel... ease in the throttle... and once my blue tape at 12-o’clock on the steering wheel lined back up... punch the throttle to the floor. The V hooked up and shot into the freeway from the on-ramp 85-105-130-OK-let it coast to the next exit where there are a few cloverleaf freeway ramps to do it a few more times.

Ya..ya. Don’t lecture me on going so fast in ummmm...Mexico. It took me a while to do this review until I knew I could do it safely.
So what’s next?
I ordered the ZL1 1LE solid aluminum cradle bushings. I’m hoping that it won’t impact the NVH too badly with keeping the magnetic ride and the stock springs in place. The cradle bushings are what makes the Zl1 1LE such a track beast. It appears to fit. I will know for sure soon.
I know this was a long post. Hopefully someone will find it interesting.
 

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Discussion Starter #329 (Edited)
That’s a great story, the guy should be writing books for real, but it doesn’t answer our question of HIGH SPEED STABILITY. We aren’t talking about handling on a road course. Most of us drag or street race. How does the car feel at triple digits??

I also don’t see anywhere where he says the Camaro bushings are a direct replacement. He says it “appears” to fit.


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That’s a great story, the guy should be writing books for real, but it doesn’t answer our question of HIGH SPEED STABILITY. We aren’t talking about handling on a road course. Most of us drag or street race. How does the car feel at triple digits??

I also don’t see anywhere where he says the Camaro bushings are a direct replacement.
After he gets the bushings installed I'll ask, there's been a lot of comments about the bushings from other folks and whether or not they'll actually fit. Jury is still out.
 

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Discussion Starter #331
After he gets the bushings installed I'll ask, there's been a lot of comments about the bushings from other folks and whether or not they'll actually fit. Jury is still out.
I’m sure the Carlyle arms improved the feel. We just need to know if it’s improved what we need improved.


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I’m sure the Carlyle arms improved the feel. We just need to know if it’s improved what we need improved.


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Yeah, he just posted this yesterday evening, and it doesn't sound like he's had a chance to run it up to speed yet. I've saved the post and will update as I have more info.
 

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Philip Adams posted a good review of the Carlyle Arms on one of V3 Facebook groups, I am reposting here with his permission. Of particular interest - he mentions " ZL1 1LE solid aluminum cradle bushings" as a direct replacement. I know we've been searching for solid bushings and this might be the fix. I've asked him to post an update on the bushings after he has installed them.
Great post, wish we had more like it!!!


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That’s a great story, the guy should be writing books for real, but it doesn’t answer our question of HIGH SPEED STABILITY. We aren’t talking about handling on a road course. Most of us drag or street race. How does the car feel at triple digits??

I also don’t see anywhere where he says the Camaro bushings are a direct replacement. He says it “appears” to fit.


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That wasn’t on a race track... that was running it up to 100mph on a relatively straight but very much a imperfect country road.... and then up to 130mph on the highway. At 70-130 it’s smooth as glass... but it’s always been that way.

Going straight was never a problem for it though... more laying the hammer down from a dig or out of a turn and it wanting to kick out. With the suspension arms in, its even better. I am pretty happy to have done that mod.

Alignments are easy to kick out on the V3. My guess would be with the soft carrier bushings in the rear there’s a lot more movement going on back there than should be. I’ve only got 13500mi on my 2018 and it’s been in for 3 alignments so far. I am not happy until it’s right and nearly able to keep itself driving straight on the road.

I wasn’t able to get the solid zl1 1le bushings but managed to order the BMR bushing lockout from Summit Racing this morning. Just as well anyways because there will be less NVH from it. From what I can tell, it “should” work... we will find out soon enough. The stock V3 carrier bushing is the same per number as any standard Camaro so, it was worth me trying it out. I ordered new TTY bolts and that’s going to take the longest to get to me.

Will keep you guys posted with my results and findings on both the street and highway.


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Discussion Starter #335
That wasn’t on a race track... that was running it up to 100mph on a relatively straight but very much a imperfect country road.... and then up to 130mph on the highway. At 70-130 it’s smooth as glass... but it’s always been that way.

Going straight was never a problem for it though... more laying the hammer down from a dig or out of a turn and it wanting to kick out. With the suspension arms in, its even better. I am pretty happy to have done that mod.

Alignments are easy to kick out on the V3. My guess would be with the soft carrier bushings in the rear there’s a lot more movement going on back there than should be. I’ve only got 13500mi on my 2018 and it’s been in for 3 alignments so far. I am not happy until it’s right and nearly able to keep itself driving straight on the road.

I wasn’t able to get the solid zl1 1le bushings but managed to order the BMR bushing lockout from Summit Racing this morning. Just as well anyways because there will be less NVH from it. From what I can tell, it “should” work... we will find out soon enough. The stock V3 carrier bushing is the same per number as any standard Camaro so, it was worth me trying it out. I ordered new TTY bolts and that’s going to take the longest to get to me.

Will keep you guys posted with my results and findings on both the street and highway.


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Yeah I don’t think we have the same issues.


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Yeah I don’t think we have the same issues.


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When’s your last alignment been? Can you share your post alignment settings?


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Discussion Starter #337
When’s your last alignment been? Can you share your post alignment settings?


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It’s been a while but I hardly drive the car. I may have the print out in my garage. I’ll look for it. The sensation is the ass end of the car feels like if wandering left and right under wot at 100+. Rear of the car doesn’t feel planted. I have the ZL1 bushings but I have to get them out of a subframe since that was the only way I could get my hands on them.


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It’s been a while but I hardly drive the car. I may have the print out in my garage. I’ll look for it. The sensation is the ass end of the car feels like if wandering left and right under wot at 100+. Rear of the car doesn’t feel planted. I have the ZL1 bushings but I have to get them out of a subframe since that was the only way I could get my hands on them.


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Here’s my admittedly amateur theory about what’s going on for whatever that’s worth to you: (I’m not a GM suspension engineer although I have engineering in my background)

If you added 250hp+ to the car and went completely $hit silly sideways and inducing excessive movement to occur in the suspension your rubber bushings could be compromised. Rubber bushings normally break down with a lot of age but add 250hp and you’ve rapidly accelerated that aging process faster than Lindsay Lohan on cocaine.

The vehicle should not pull to one side or another unless the alignment is off or you have some suspension damage.

If you’re driving down a straight path but start pulling to one side, that’s a sign your caster is off. Positive caster increases the steering effort and the straight line tracking. The most obvious and easiest sign to detect if your caster is off is if you feel your vehicle pulling to one side.

Your rear toe on a rear wheel driven, independent rear suspension, electronically controlled differential car is extremely important. If you have skied before, both feet inward causes you to slow down. One foot toed in or out more than the other will cause you to rotate or turn. This is where things used to be easier straight line with a solid axle. The only thing you had to deal with really was whether the you were fighting the posi.

With the torque on our cars it’s easy to overwhelm the ultra soft carrier bushings they put in our “luxury” performance vehicles. BMW figured this out after a while and they have their carrier solid mounted to the body with the later model M-series. GM figured this out with the zl1 1le and put the solid mount. For the plushy Cadillac we got a rubber bushing to make the targeted buying demographic happy...

That deflection on the carrier bushing kicks the rear out of shape and can adjust the toe alignment causing some unpredictable rotation. The eLSD tries to use its programming to correct the rear being out of shape but the geometry is out of shape and so any “help” can seem heavy handed. Here is where you can:

a) limit the movement at the carrier bushing
b) limit movement at the arms to make it harder to move the alignment out of shape
c) do both and hope that you have it dialed so the suspension geometry can actually work like it should and hope you didn’t upset something else.

As you can tell, I’m at step C at the moment. I am REALLY HAPPY at doing step B without a doubt. However, if I could have done it again I would have started with A first and done the bushing first.

I make sure that my alignment is spot on for how I drive the car. I absolutely love it and learning to drive it quicker. I am just trying to cure some bad manners at the limits before adding much more power (ie Kong 2650 or Magnusson). Every few months I have gotten a realignment realizing something was a bit off and sure enough the front was true and the rear was off.

I have the BMR lockout bushings soon. I’ll try to get some free time from the family and get it on the QuickJack once I have the factory TTY bolts to do it right.


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Philip Adams posted a good review of the Carlyle Arms on one of V3 Facebook groups, I am reposting here with his permission. Of particular interest - he mentions " ZL1 1LE solid aluminum cradle bushings" as a direct replacement. I know we've been searching for solid bushings and this might be the fix. I've asked him to post an update on the bushings after he has installed them.
Great write up !I have the Carlyle kit
and will probably be installed in the next month or so


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