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Discussion Starter #1
Anyone else going. I'm in black or red group depending on which group is smaller. Scored a deal on some Hawk pads.

$484 Hawk DTC 60/70's R/F
- $5 Buy 2 items seller discount
- $3 Text coupon (text EXTRA to 70799)
-$48 10% eBay bucks
-$20 EBay MasterCard statement credit for $200+ purchase
- $7 TopCash 1.5% cash back
$381 NET

 

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Hi CVP

Good luck car looks sick. What is the Black or Red Run group for Track Daze classification definition. Every HPDE operates on different formats, it's like trying to herd cats to figure out, I don't even try to any more. Do they also use MSF Certified instructors? Do they use drivingevals.com? I have never run with them and I am curious.

Thanks In Advance.

Bonus points for the car looking bada$$. Points deduction for track map on the window.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Red group is for instructors and those that no how to get out of the way of instructors. Pass wherever you feel comfortable no point-bys needed, but encouraged.

Black group is the step below, pass wherever with point-by.

Track map is so I remember where to go.
 

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Good luck out there and have fun. If I wasn't going to be in Vegas this week I'd be there. Only about an hour 40 minutes from my house. Love VIR.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #7
We have some Caddies out here - ATS-V coupe and a first gen CTS-V. The event is packed with 35+ cars in every run group. I managed a 2:59 in traffic that probably cost me 3 secs. A couple of cool things that you'll only see as VIR.

1) Wednesday night we got there for early check-in and GM had 2 cammo'd mules there. One was already on the Reliable hauler when we pulled in, the other was being readied for loading. It was about the size of an ATS-V and it definitely had a V8. We took one picture before the GM engineers ran over for an attempted diversionary tactic B.S. asking us how we liked our cars - two 2019 Z06's. They really didn't care, they just wanted us to stop taking pics.

2) Car and Driver was there with a brand new Lincoln Aviator (Michigan Manufacturer plates) and Kia Stinger GTS (California Dealer plates). Track Daze made them run the Stinger with the Orange group. Our guess is that they were trying to get some track impressions from the car, but running a hero lap was impossible with our run group sizes. Well, the Stinger got stung in the climbing essess. I spoke with the driver after the OFF and he claimed he never got a clean entry in, until he did on the last lap of the session. He decided to open her up, entered at 124mph and at the 3rd kink he clipped the left curbing, upset the car, over corrected and ate the tire wall - first straight in, then passenger side. Not pretty. Track Daze was not happy. Fluid on track, damaged tire wall, etc.

I'll post up some pics later tonight of the cammo-car and the wrecked Kia.

P.S. Many moons ago we arrived for a track day and there sat 2 Corvettes. They looked normal except for a few things. One, you could see through the rear hatch glass that they were loaded with either logging or tuning equipment (or both) bolted to the hatch area floor. There was a different vent on the side of the car covered with cammo-tape. And the center of the hood was covered with cammo-tape. Seemed strange until 4 months later the C6 ZR1 was announced. We had no idea what we were looking at.
 

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That is awesome they were there with you guys. Surprised that a test driver had an off in the esses. There is a clear line of sight and it is not that technical L-R-L. Interesting. Who was the driver of the Stinger? If it was a journo it would make sense and not a proper test driver. Wadding a car for a magazine shoot/article is no bueno.

Pics please.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Bad day. Z06 punched pit wall on out lap. We were down for 90minutes as the installed 8' of new guard rail. Car is definitely totalled.
 

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Great pics. WTF is going on, 1st the test driver wads the stinger and a Z06 crashes on pit out.

Shit like that makes me not want to be at those types of HPDE events. I was coaching a student in a Toyota 86 at NHMS this year and an instructor told a student to pass me and to other cars without a point by in the novice group. I was fucking livid as there was mucho traffic and thought he was going to crash. Of course it was a Mustang. I held my tongue and waited for the session to end so the student could get his full session in. Had him bring me to pit out where the CI was, got out of the car and went ballistic on the CI. I NEVER do that type of yelling but I was livid as this guy almost took 3 cars out with his stupidity. I told him you fix it with the instructor or I will and you can kiss my ass if you ever think i'll come back to a bush league event like this again. (I Know the owner of the event, we race together, so I have some credibility with the event organisers and instructors.)

I hate hearing of crashes and 95% afe usually driver error and not mechanical.

Glad you came out whole.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Well it only got worse. Run groups were waaaayyyyyy too large at 45. By the time I finish my warm up lap I was catching cars on their out lap. So that means I'm screaming down the front straight at 157mph and hoping that some guy in a Mustang listened during the meeting and stays track right on pit out until turn 1. This also led to a shortage of patience especially later in the sessions. My sessions were me giving 1 or 2 point-bys and then lapping the field or safely making 40 passes in 30 minutes. I've never seen it that bad. By the end of the day, 2 C7 Z06 had crashed, one on pit out, the second right behind me on the out lap (so that's the 2 most 'seasoned' groups losing a car). 6 other cars left the track for a total of 8 that had to be towed in and a possibility of 3 totalled.

Track Daze should've capped the entries at 30 max per group and raise the fee if needed. The last group of the day was a red/black combination with, wait for it......75 cars potentially on track. I fucking left before that happened. Couldn't take anymore. I thought about going tomorrow with the Audi club since the car is all prepped and barely got taxed. But guess what? Nearly 200 drivers schedule with only 5 run groups. No fun man.

I ran a best of 2:06 in stupid heavy traffic. I think I passed 6 cars on that lap. Not even worth posting video.
 

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You experienced the road racing equivalent of going to a drag strip for a test and tune. Way too many cars, too many rookies who don't have a clue and zero organization. That's what $40-50 bucks get you. I'll gladly spend $100-$150 for a private rental, a fraction of the cars, and a group of people who know what they're doing. Sorry it sucked, but you didn't wreck or break so it still beats a day in the office.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Found a video of me passing someone @ 9:39. This was yesterday on the Grand West Course, aka lightning Lap.

 

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Discussion Starter #14
Found a video of me passing someone @ 9:39. This was yesterday on the Grand West Course, aka lightning Lap.

 

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Discussion Starter #15
Well I just saw a text from my crew, apparently another Z06 went off after I left. Turn 5/6 is what he heard and looked to be totalled. That makes 9 cars, 4 totalled and 3 Z06's. WTF
 

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Well I just saw a text from my crew, apparently another Z06 went off after I left. Turn 5/6 is what he heard and looked to be totalled. That makes 9 cars, 4 totalled and 3 Z06's. WTF
Hope Tyler avoided carnage. Glad you did too.
 

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CVP, what I've learned is that the clubs that are for profit have the mindset, more cars = more money. Period. Looking at you pass that guy at 9:39 the speed differential was HUGE.

Sorry to hear that about the cars getting totaled and crashed. The event organizers still collect the money and go home to have another event rental at another track day. As a coach/instructor after the first few crashes I would have pulled everyone in for a come to Jesus meeting. It's not worth it to put your life and car in danger at these types of events. Lets be honest on the run groups - how many guys in the advanced run group are really advanced? I hear it all the time, move me up, I am ready, blah blah blah. The male ego wants to be at the top of the mountain, the advanced/instructor group is the top. The instructor corps is shit as well, I see it all the time. Guys that have been around for years are now instructors. Based on what? Time in grade, good guy? Paid his dues? This mix of large car counts with multiple run groups at a VERY high speed track is downright frightening. Hearing that cars are crashing on pit out tells me that many don't even understand how to enter a hot track let alone find the blend line.

You are better off doing a private day at the track. I used to go to these events to coach and test my car for free, not worth it, I go to the private days and pay. Guys in street cars would see my car on track and get all puffy chest and want to do battle. There was a young kid in a C6 with a cage who kept asking me about times. What times are you doing, I'm doing times that would put me in the front your of your class and so on. I'm fucking testing and this little fly is poking me and strutting like a peacock about his "times". I chuckle and go about my business of testing and see him on track in the rear view, I let him catch up and give him the point and follow him for a few laps. I could have passed him at will under braking on any corner that I wanted. This would have put him in a panic mode and most likely into a potential crash state. Mind you he has 315 Hoosiers all around and 150-175 more HP. I get in and he comes over and says couldn't pass me huh? What BALLS. My crew is looking at me saying oh boy here it comes. (I take pity on the stupid.) I said when your ready, really ready I can hook you up with the SCCA guys, slap some numbers on it and we can actually see who can win a race. Your a good driver we should have a real race and when done it's official and you can tell all your friends how good you really are. When I beat you, which I will, your pretty girlfriend (She was hot) won't think your so bad ass as I have 2 less cylinders and you have a true sports car. Your times mean shit in a race just like you coming over to me talking about times after every session. Keep in mind you may go off and smash that nice car when I pass you. His eyes get huge and he says and I quote:"That's why I don't race I don't want to wreck the car." My response was: "well then stop bothering me about times because they mean shit to me and this is a test day not a dick measuring contest about times." If you are serious lets go racing otherwise take your car and your hot girl and go bother someone else. He just looked at me and was in a state of confusion because he could not grasp I could care less about times and it really bothered him.

That's the mindset at these events, not all the people but many of them. They look at what the IMSA/TA/SCCA/NASA/pick one, races are doing and if they get close to a time and class they like the data they select makes them fast by association. They go home and say to their friends and wives, "see I'm as fast as these guys I should be out there racing with them."

Having that many crashes at this event is pathetic and some fault of the event organizers.

I have watched your video's, you are a good driver and plenty fast. Get the fuck away from these total amateurs and around better drivers to take you to another level. These events are like crabs in a bucket. Once you start climbing to the top the others drag you down back into the shit bucket. Go to a track day with better crabs.
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
Tyler did great. Really good driver for his first few times out. Track Daze should've moved him up but the run groups were so large we just couldn't take anymore cars moving up. I had a near miss on the back straight as a car took the checkered as a great opportunity to stab the brakes versus let off, nearly balled up 5 of us. As you come off Oak Tree, everyone is moving track left to indicate they want to pass. I was between 2 Mustang spec racers, still not sure how they didn't hit me.

m13s - Looks like you and I were typing at the same time. The event was a disaster. I've run plenty with Track Daze and this was by far the worst event I've ever participated in. Here's my thoughts on your post and the event itself:

1) Too many cars in run groups led to impatience and blatant stupidity.
2) Guys on slicks and SC2's were pushing early before tires and track were warm.
3) The guy behind me that went off was trying to keep up with me on the outlap and I was on NT-01's with 30#'s, he was on slicks and thought he should be keeping up. If he'd have waited 1 lap he would crush me in the corners.....just impatient.
4) The speed differential was the worst I've seen it. We had drivers in the climbing essess at 80mph.....lots of bunching.
5) I ran black group (one below the top group) and I've never seen more bad behavior - late point-bys, wrong side point-bys, guys so nervous in traffic that they didn't pass, got off-line and dropped 2 wheels.......we had more dirt and grass on the track than a moto-cross race.....well maybe not that bad.

I've only been invited to 1 track rental. I would love to attend more, but don't know how to even go about it.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Here's the GM test car:



Here's the balled up Kia Stinger that Car and Driver brought.



Here's the Z06 that ate pit wall on his out lap.





 

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Who is Tyler?

SC2's?


Most tracks have member days, they just don't advertise them. If you have guys you know that are track members ask them about member days. Open track the whole day maybe three run groups if there are a lot of cars.

Open Wheel
Small bore
Big Bore

Check with your local tracks and call them and say you are thinking of joining. Sometimes they give you a freebe and you can see the type of drivers on track. They are a completely different type of track day so you will have to get reprogrammed. Minimal to no structure, some of the days I go to there are minimal corner workers and they rely on the drivers to call things in. So much track time I usually do one session after lunch and gone by 2-2:30. Very rare to see an off or crash at these events because the guys are usually testing or out for a fun joy ride and we know what the drivers are doing because we all know each other for the most part. Drivers at your level and up. If there is a FNG, it is usually noted at the drivers meeting so everyone knows that persons skill level and to give them room and proper passing. These events are no point by's with passing anywhere on the track. At the drivers meeting I say I'm going hot from 10-11:00 (we go with several cars) and will be driving at 8/10ths, so they stay on line when they see me coming I do the same for the faster cars as well. New drivers are welcome but they are instructed that there are fast guys and fast hardware on track and you must be aware at all times when hot. They get it and sometimes I take them in my car to get the butterflies out as it can be intimidating for a DE driver to be on track with a higher skill level that they are used to and no rules.

Hearing that the dude crashed trying to keep up with you when he is on slicks and has not even done a sighting lap, has not allowed the slicks to come up to temp shows me everything I need to know. Low track IQ and that is the type of person to stay away from. He is focused on keeping up and worrying what the other car is doing and not adhering to fundamentals. That is a function of lack of training and ego. Add HP to the mix = disaster. Amateur hour and the results speak for themselves at that track event. Hopefully the crashed cars opted for track insurance otherwise write the check. Would love to be at the kitchen table when they have to tell the wife that the $100K+ car that they owe XXX dollars on is totaled at the track day because I did not take the optional insurance and our insurance coverage will not cover it. Game, set match for that guy. But hey he can tell all his buddies that if I only did this or that I would have passed that dude because he was holding me up and caused me to go off line and crash. Ya right. You can bank on all those stories because that's what those types of drivers do- Always somebody else cause a problem for them. They should look in the mirror and admit they don't know WTF they are doing and that THEY are responsible. Glad no one was injured or god forbid killed.


Glad you are on track, there is nothing like it! these type of events can change your outlook on them.
 
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