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Discussion Starter #61
Sorry boss, there would be no such thing as "off peak" anymore. There would be hundreds of thousands of people people trying to charge up and the as people try to charge up before incoming storms (think about groceries stores before hurricanes coming your way).

We've been a hundred years developing the infrastructure, done mostly all privately by gas station industry and trucking, for distribution of petrol.

This push by using subsidies to get more EVs is ahead of itself.
Sure - lots of factors affect it. And hurricanes def throw shit way off. Here in Texas the heat can cause pretty significant changes in load. Brownouts and rolling blackouts aren't uncommon due to peak load variations. It may be different in other areas, but peak load is easily seen here during hot summers. How much variance? I'm not an expert. But every homeowner knows the very real impacts of load demand spikes.

Subsidies are a whole nuther area. I'm not itching to debate that one. I'll get a small subsidy for our two cars, but honestly saving the planet and tax kickbacks weren't really a factor in our buying decision.

And I think we all agree that adaptations will be needed as the percentage of EV's on the road grows. It remains to be seen how that will play out. Here in Texas we've learned how to respond to grocery demand ahead of hurricanes. Stores and citizens alike have developed plans and strategies for dealing with it. More importantly docs and pharmacies also have solid plans in place. Hell - even Dominoes here will deliver pizzas by boat during a flood. Seriously - no shit.

If we can get a pizza delivered by boat during a flood, I have total faith that smart engineers and planners can accommodate power demand growth over time.

BTW - good time to say thank you to everyone who served. I had the good fortune to spend some time on a Seawolf class submarine as part of a Navy program offered to potential Academy students when I was 18. It was a hella time and an amazing opportunity. And it gives me huge respect for those doing duty full time on those boats.

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You should use the paint gauge on the inside door jambs vs the main body panels (hood/roof/trunk etc).
The door jamb usually only has just a very thin clear coat so the difference in thickness readings tells you how thick the clearcoat is vs base coat.

Would be interesting to see if the Tesla is thinner clearcoat or base coat vs the audi.




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Discussion Starter #63 (Edited)
You should use the paint gauge on the inside door jambs vs the main body panels (hood/roof/trunk etc).
The door jamb usually only has just a very thin clear coat so the difference in thickness readings tells you how thick the clearcoat is vs base coat.

Would be interesting to see if the Tesla is thinner clearcoat or base coat vs the audi.
Good idea - will do tomorrow.

Update: measured both cars in about two dozen spots. Both cars are proportionately thinner around all painted areas that aren't the visible exterior surface.

On the photos, the small number to the upper left of the large thickness number is the total # of measurements. Below that you can see min, max, and avg. There's no telling if my technique is garbage so take these data with that in mind. But with me doing both cars the same way, it's clear there is a difference when averaged across 20-25 measurements.

I did the doors (inside portions that don't face outward) and the jambs multiple spots, high and low.
 

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Discussion Starter #64
Sorry boss, there would be no such thing as "off peak" anymore. There would be hundreds of thousands of people people trying to charge up and the as people try to charge up before incoming storms (think about groceries stores before hurricanes coming your way).

We've been a hundred years developing the infrastructure, done mostly all privately by gas station industry and trucking, for distribution of petrol.

This push by using subsidies to get more EVs is ahead of itself.
My wife reminded me - we got a much larger subsidy when we installed new high efficiency AC units and added insulation to our house.

And I'm with you on private industry building out infrastructure. My power provider doesn't ask or really care what I am using their electricity for. It could be for manufacturing, cooling, power tools, growing "specialty indoor plants", and so on. They care about how much I use and when I use it to some extent.

I think as long as people are willing to pay and companies can generate a profit, they will rise to the occasion. Entrepreneurs in the US have rarely been one to turn down a profitable venture.

Plus - it might be good to have vehicles of different types on the road. We only have a few refineries in the US. A catastrophe could really impact us if it causes widespread transportation disruption. Having different power sources could provide a hedge against so-called black swan events.

I hope this discussion doesnt created a rift among any of us. I value and respect contradicting opinions. Being able to discuss them passionately but civilly is important.

-=TT=-

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Discussion Starter #65
So today we had some rain here in Texas. I had my first chance to evaluate Tesla's controversial and oft-ridiculed AI automatic wipers, supposedly powered by a deep learning AI system called "Deep Rain".

And the verdict is: They work DAMN good. So good I drove most of the way home before I remembered to take note of them. This is the first system I have used that when left on, didn't wipe ONCE when the windshield was dry. Both our V2 and the Audi had the classic IR-based rain sensors, and they worked predictably well in the rain. But if you left them on, invariably dust or pollen or something else would trigger a stray wipe here and there when it was dry and sunny. This usually resulted in some kind of smearing or trashing up of the windshield - mostly because there was usually some level of dirt, road film, etc on the glass. With no water to clean the crud, the wiper blade just spreads it around.

My wife's car doesn't yet have the software update that includes this new logic. And it works OK, but not great - she said she finds she sometimes has to hit the manual wipe function from time to time, so it's easy to tell the changes from old code and logic to new. Tesla claims that on the new system, anytime you use the manual wipe function, it uses that data to further train the neural net. But at least based on today, I haven't needed to do anything.

What's noteworthy is that part of my drive was in actual rain, and part was in mist and spray from vehicles ahead of me. At the end of the drive, when I remembered to pay close attention, I noticed the wiper doing a really good job of determining exactly how much forward visibility there was. In a Tesla, there are three forward-facing cameras that look thru the wiper swept area on the front windshield - they are contained in the mount for the rearview mirror. This is somewhat different than conventional infrared systems that use internal->external light transmission to determine how much water is on the window. It's a rough proxy for visibility, but not perfect. Tesla seems to be doing a really good job of determining ACTUAL visibility by using the cameras to know how clear the windshield is.

Now is this a lot of overkill? Maybe. Is it more costly that the IR systems? Not sure - a few years back, RainSense wiper systems as an option could run you over $1000 per car. That's a lot of cash when spread across hundreds of thousands of vehicles so equipped.

Overall, this really isn't a game changer to me, but the car knowing exactly what the weather is and what the windshield visibility is could possibly be useful in other parts of the system software. As a driver, I was at least happy that it works well and you don't have to think about it.
 

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They sound like a nice setup, but I HATE using wipers, and I live in the NW.
I hate it when they wipe, and I hate the wiper lines.
So, I try to treat the windshield so it beads off.



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Discussion Starter #68
They sound like a nice setup, but I HATE using wipers, and I live in the NW.
I hate it when they wipe, and I hate the wiper lines.
So, I try to treat the windshield so it beads off.
Yeah - you can turn them off of course. And even with the supposed AI based automation, there's still an option to adjust sensitivity. I'll have to play around with it more...

Like you, I like to treat the glass too. I would hope that if the treatment improves visibility, the system would see that just like you as a driver would and not wipe or wipe less often.
Glassparency is amazing!
Will check it out - I've only used RainX. Nice tip.
 

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Discussion Starter #71
Interesting factoid:

The Model X SUV and the Porsche Taycan Turbo S have the same drag coefficient. X has more frontal area, but they are equal in terms of efficiency. That's pretty impressive. Not too many SUV's with a 0.25 drag coefficient...

Oops - just rechecked my facts. The Model X is actually 0.24, so slightly better than the top Taycan. The lower models with narrower tires and less cooling get down to 0.23, 0.22 with all the active cooling dampers fully closed.
 

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Discussion Starter #72
Cleaned up the X yesterday - first time I've really vacuumed it. Nice attention to detail here. The floor is completely flat from the trunk to the front of the front seat footwells. The one pic might be hard to tell, but you are looking at the pedals from the REAR floor under the driver's seat.

Care was taken to run all seat wiring and other items thru the mounts. You can easily vacuum complete under the seats from either the front or back. And sliding long, flat items onto the floor is easy because all the seat mounts are clean and tidy. Rear is some beefy aircraft-style aluminum truss. Even under the rear seats is totally clear - I could reach my entire arm under from the front of the seat bottom and feel and see no obstructions other than the seat mounts. And even those mount in just 4 spots.

Part of me does wonder is this super flat floor under the driver's seat might pose a slightly elevated risk of something sliding forward and interfering with the pedals...any safety experts on here have any thoughts about that?

Regardless, its interesting to see the thoughtful design and care Tesla takes in some areas, while other aspects of the vehicle seem to be sub-par compared to the likes of Audi, Merc, BMW...even Lincoln (which has some slick vehicles IMO!).

Notice too that for the center rear seat, the front console is cut back so that the center seat has almost as much legroom as the outer seats. Center seat in back is quite nice in the X. And if you have the 6 seat config it's even more spacious...


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Flat floor is a byproduct of EV skateboard design.




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Discussion Starter #74 (Edited)
Flat floor is a byproduct of EV skateboard design.
Correct, but other OEMs didn't take advantage of that. eTron doesn't have any underseat space in back. And the front seats have all sorts of crap under them. Floor might be flat, but they managed to trash it up with lots of other stuff. iPace is same - wires and attachment points everywhere. It doesn't change the world, but in one case its clear someone thought about it. In others, not so much.

Check out the rear of the iPace. NOT a flat floor - at least not under the rear seats. It's completely blocked off. And check out the middle seat and that rear console - it intrudes into the foot space for the middle passenger. Model X far better in these details.
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Let's check out the Audi eTron...

Yep, just like the iPace theres a HUMP in the middle - why?! And like the iPace, the center console juts back into the rear center foot space. Again - why? And like the iPace, there is no underseat area in back - the engineers have stuck things on top of the flat battery pack, which blocks any space under the rear seats. Not trying to be a fanboy here, but Tesla is the only one that actually uses that flat pack successfully - the Model X has a completely flat floor with usable space from front footwell all the way to the back of the rear of the cargo area. Their packaging is just far superior.

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Now go back and look at the pics under our Model X seats - Tesla even routed the HVAC floor vents for the rear in the seats attachment rails so that the floor is completely flat and one piece of easily cleaned and vacuumed carpet. Something falls between the seats? No worries - easily reach under and grab it. Kids drop french fries under the seat? Easy to vacuum - I was able to get any attachment and a wand under there, no crevice tool needed. The clearance and space is 2-3 times more than the iPace or eTron. I noticed the Model X rear mat is one single piece, all the way across, and the mat is probably 3 feet or more from front to back. Other competitors use two small mats on each side because while the skateboard design is flat, the interior of the car is anything but.
 

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Discussion Starter #75
Don't get me wrong - my wife is a big Audi fan. She's had her SQ5 for several years now and she loves it. Hence we shopped cars like the eTron VERY hard. And the interior - like many Audi cars, was beautiful. But the controls weren't as intuitive and logical as Teslas. The eTron weighs 300-400 lbs more than the Model X, but somehow it has almost 50% less range, and far less space. It's 5 inches shorter, 2-3 inches narrower, and 3 inches shorter than the Tesla. So you'd think it should weigh less, have less drag, better performance, and at least equal range. But it falls short on almost every metric other than aesthetics.

And when we drove it, the ride of the Tesla was far better. When she looked at less range, less space, and less of almost everything else, my wife wanted the Tesla. And a base Model X is comparable in price to the eTron, yet still is better on all metrics. The super quick performance X is just extra, but everything above is valid for the base model as well.

Fanboy or girl or not, it's hard to argue with the data. And I've been clear about my disappointment with various aspect of the Tesla, from the odd bodywork and sub-par paint to many other things. But there's also a ton to like here.
 

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Discussion Starter #78
Haha!
Do they have carbon fiber hoods, trunk lids? Can’t think of much else...


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Entire body is aluminum...so CF would prob weigh more just like it does with the V2. But if you left it clear coated it might be a cool look.

Thought I'd take a pic of the rear floor mat. Mat is 3 1/2 feet front to back and 4 1/2 feet wide. That's a flat floor with a lot of foot room. Every other EV gets separate mats left and right because there's a hump or other obstruction.



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