Cadillac CTS-V Forum banner
1 - 20 of 29 Posts

· Registered
Joined
·
109 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey guys, looks like I’m going to need a new short block on my twin turbo V. Any recommendations as to what block would be the best option? I’ve seen some people talk about a 5.3 with good luck or should I get away from aluminum blocks all together and go with something iron? I was making about 1100hp and 1200ftlb at the tire on e85 but I usually kept it dialed down to around 800rwhp. I don’t really plan to turn it up much more than what it made before. I don’t remember if this was an LS3 or LS9 block but looks like it let go on the rear of the block. Actually it still ran with good oil pressure so hopefully I can salvage some good parts for the new motor. Thanks for any tips.
 

· Premium Member
2014 CTS-V Sedan A6
Joined
·
1,393 Posts
Oh hell yes, Dart Iron LSNext block so hard. Call Thompson Motorsports of Texas. They have build several 1,000+ Dart CTS-Vs here in Oklahoma City. They will take care of you.
 
  • Like
Reactions: random84

· Premium Member
Joined
·
5,926 Posts
You like the Dart blocks over the GM LSX block? Any particular reason? I have a friend at GM performance that can get me the LSX block shipped to my door for $2650.
The Dart Block is made from a little better material.
The Dart Blocks machining is also a little bit more accurate.

However they are both good blocks, and both are good to at 'Least' 1500 fwHP.
Under 1500 fwHP, I simply would not worry about it. . . .

Cheers
 

· Registered
Joined
·
109 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
The Dart Block is made from a little better material.
The Dart Blocks machining is also a little bit more accurate.

However they are both good blocks, and both are good to at 'Least' 1500 fwHP.
Under 1500 fwHP, I simply would not worry about it. . . .

Cheers
Do you think the 5.3 iron block with all forged internals would handle the power? I’ve seen claims that it will a lot of power.
 

· Premium Member
Joined
·
5,926 Posts
Do you think the 5.3 iron block with all forged internals would handle the power? I’ve seen claims that it will a lot of power.


Maybe(?) so, but doing things that way may(?) lead to unexpected problems?
That is why GM made the lsX Iron Block available and also warrants it.

While other blocks may be more suitable for higher HP levels,
you can't beat the lsX Iron Block for builds which might
make 1500 fwHP.

Also, not being critical;
But the general term 'Forged Internals' is a broad statement,
as some forged parts are much better than are others.

Kinda like a hamburger; some are great, and some are just okay..;)

I would think that you would desire at least the lsX Iron Block, as
well as the crankshaft from Dart that has the six counterweights.

Low cavitation oil pumps are also something
one should look into for these builds (JMHO)!

Cheers
 

· Premium Member
2014 CTS-V Sedan A6
Joined
·
1,393 Posts
Do you think the 5.3 iron block with all forged internals would handle the power? I’ve seen claims that it will a lot of power.
Yes, I think a prepped iron 5.3 with good internals would hold 800whp just fine. I can't tell you how many turbocharged iron 5.3s are out there making steam. Now, 1100-1300 wheel or crank, no.

The Dart and LSX blocks (and others) have priority main oiling. Factory blocks (IIRC) oil the valve train first, then the crank/rods get oil. That's not what you want in an engine that's getting all the sauce from time to time. I wonder if it would be good to get the 5.3 and a baller rotating assembly VS. a Dart iron block and an average forged rotating assembly.
 

· Premium Member
2014 CTS-V Sedan A6
Joined
·
1,393 Posts
I would think that you would desire at least the lsX Iron Block, as
well as the crankshaft from Dart that has the six counterweights.

Low cavitation oil pumps are also something
one should look into for these builds (JMHO)!

Cheers
Bruce, Callies makes a CCW crank as well (Compstar). It's about the same cost as the Dart one. I believe both cranks are cast in China and machined here in the US.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rubber Duck

· Premium Member
Joined
·
5,926 Posts
Yes, I think a prepped iron 5.3 with good internals would hold 800whp just fine. I can't tell you how many turbocharged iron 5.3s are out there making steam. Now, 1100-1300 wheel or crank, no.

The Dart and LSX blocks (and others) have priority main oiling. Factory blocks (IIRC) oil the valve train first, then the crank/rods get oil. That's not what you want in an engine that's getting all the sauce from time to time. I wonder if it would be good to get the 5.3 and a baller rotating assembly VS. a Dart iron block and an average forged rotating assembly.
The lsX Iron Block is a 'Y-Block' and the engine is flooded
with oil which causes 'Windage Issues'.
***This engine is warranted to 900fwHP by GM, and is good for 1500 fwHP.

Windage; if your moving 1200 cfm of air on top of the piston,
your also moving 1200 cfm of air on the bottom of the piston.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Dart Block is made from better material and therefore
the 'Y-Block' configuration is not required for strength, helping
to reduce windage issues.

Here is an article by Dart on Priority Oiling.

You can't beat products from companies like
Dart, Sonny Bryant or CFE Racing Heads, as
they were founded years ago by real racers,
not just a group of investors who are simply
'Bean Counters' selling their products made
in China.
***How many ways can one spin the differences
in products they make in China. . . . .
It's easy; it's quantified by dollar bills. . . . .

Sadly Sonny Bryant who was a great engineer,
as well as one of the nicest people you ever
met, passed away recently.

For those interested, here is a link to an engine build
by Sonny. This is an NA Engine having an internal volume
of 932 CID, which put down 2025 fwHP.

Rectangle Slope Plot Font Line
 
  • Like
Reactions: jcs003 and JAustin

· Premium Member
Joined
·
5,926 Posts
Mostly everyone today learned from a few who developed out the technologies of today.

-as one example-
Dick Maskin's of Dart was part of AMC's Pro Stock Team back in the mid 1970's.

Those engines did not have a cylinder head as good as an SB Chevy,
which in turn did not have a head as good as the Ford Cleveland.

So Dick took it upon himself to take four cylinder heads,
cut them in half to make two taller heads, which then had
sufficient Port / Flow area to compete.

Below is a picture, 'Similar but not Exactly' to what he did back
in the mid 1970's as I could not find a picture in my files of
exactly what he did. . . .But the picture below will serve
sufficiently I would think to convey how much work and
passion racers like Dick had to do back then to win.

This type of 'Passion' never left Dick, and he moved forward to
generate a company that the 'Racer' could count on for both
performance as well as reliability.

Dick has always been an 'Innovator' not a 'Duplicator'!

Innovators tell you the real story.
The duplicators advertise a lot and 'Spin Stories'. . . .

Motor vehicle Wood Combat vehicle Automotive tire Gas
 

· Registered
Joined
·
4,438 Posts
Mostly everyone today learned from a few who developed out the technologies of today.

-as one example-
Dick Maskin's of Dart was part of AMC's Pro Stock Team back in the mid 1970's.

Those engines did not have a cylinder head as good as an SB Chevy,
which in turn did not have a head as good as the Ford Cleveland.

So Dick took it upon himself to take four cylinder heads,
cut them in half to make two taller heads, which then had
sufficient Port / Flow area to compete.

Below is a picture, 'Similar but not Exactly' to what he did back
in the mid 1970's as I could not find a picture in my files of
exactly what he did. . . .But the picture below will serve
sufficiently I would think to convey how much work and
passion racers like Dick had to do back then to win.

This type of 'Passion' never left Dick, and he moved forward to
generate a company that the 'Racer' could count on for both
performance as well as reliability.

Dick has always been an 'Innovator' not a 'Duplicator'!

Innovators tell you the real story.
The duplicators advertise a lot and 'Spin Stories'. . . .

View attachment 153762
That was some ingenuity....and skill with patience to make the cuts then mate them up.
 

· Registered
2012 Cadillac CTS-V Sedan WDT
Joined
·
1,782 Posts
Mostly everyone today learned from a few who developed out the technologies of today.

-as one example-
Dick Maskin's of Dart was part of AMC's Pro Stock Team back in the mid 1970's.

Those engines did not have a cylinder head as good as an SB Chevy,
which in turn did not have a head as good as the Ford Cleveland.

So Dick took it upon himself to take four cylinder heads,
cut them in half to make two taller heads, which then had
sufficient Port / Flow area to compete.

Below is a picture, 'Similar but not Exactly' to what he did back
in the mid 1970's as I could not find a picture in my files of
exactly what he did. . . .But the picture below will serve
sufficiently I would think to convey how much work and
passion racers like Dick had to do back then to win.

This type of 'Passion' never left Dick, and he moved forward to
generate a company that the 'Racer' could count on for both
performance as well as reliability.

Dick has always been an 'Innovator' not a 'Duplicator'!

Innovators tell you the real story.
The duplicators advertise a lot and 'Spin Stories'. . . .

View attachment 153762
Putting that mill and welder to work.
 

· Premium Member
Joined
·
5,926 Posts
Putting that mill and welder to work.
And only you would say something like that..lol

I forget exactly. But I believe it was around 1974 that
myself and my partner milled off the top of an SBC
cylinder head in order to raise the runner, as well
as increase the runner volume.

I will tell you this; heating up a cast iron cylinder head
in order to weld things back together, was . . . . .
'Damn Hot'..:eek:
 
  • Like
Reactions: jcs003

· Registered
2012 Cadillac CTS-V Sedan WDT
Joined
·
1,782 Posts
And only you would say something like that..lol

I forget exactly. But I believe it was around 1974 that
myself and my partner milled off the top of an SBC
cylinder head in order to raise the runner, as well
as increase the runner volume.

I will tell you this; heating up a cast iron cylinder head
in order to weld things back together, was . . . . .
'Damn Hot'..:eek:
Old school before you could get a prototype casting from China in 4 weeks. Haha
 

· Premium Member
Joined
·
5,926 Posts
Old school before you could get a prototype casting from China in 4 weeks. Haha
All we had to work with was the cast iron cylinder heads
made by the manufacturers back then. Same thing with
the engine block.

Indifferent to what the material is; most of the changes we see
with today's cylinder heads, versus those cast iron heads came
from racers using flow benches.

With the SBC heads back then, the runners were far to small
unless you had a 265 or 283 cid engine. Even with a high
revving 302 Z28 engine they were too small.

While the Factory's did try to help, they messed things up
about as much as they helped when using those first high
CFM Flow Benches they were able to build with their big
budgets.

The first improvements were simply to make the runners bigger,
particularly with the BBC heads. The original 396 & 427 CID
Chev heads, which had been designed on the 'Mystery Motor'
of 1963 were great.

For testing purposes; The Mystery Motor of 1963 had used the then
new canted valved head bolted onto a 409 Chevrolet Block originally.

But when they went to put them onto the new engine blocks, they had
to move the runners for the head bolts, which of course also helped to
kill the engine performance.

As with the Ford Tunnel Port Heads; those large runner
heads flowed pretty well on the flow bench. However, on
the street those heads did not perform well.

In the end, just like Ford; the 396 & 427 rectangular port
heads also had too large of a runner volume. The smaller
Oval Port Head fitted with the larger 2.19" intake valve worked
the best for 'Street / Strip' cars.

All of those large runner heads only performed well at sustained
high engine rpm, which is how Ford used those large runner volume
heads to win Le Mans back in the 1960's.

The Chrysler 413 & 426 Max Wedges had it figured out first.

Cheers
 
  • Like
Reactions: Blades1_99
1 - 20 of 29 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top