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No dyno but this is more appropriate to where the car is now - a third gear street pull. this was 80*F so boost is lower (I'll pull 19+ in cooler air).

So I'm around 18-19psi, timing in the mid-teens at peak torque then ramping up to 21-24* advance relative to ethanol percent.

If peak torque is around 4600 RPM, I am octane limited as you know so I'm closer to 15-16*F on 93 octane.


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Just a thought. . .
Instead of laying out all that cash for the Kong Lid,
you might consider injecting Meth.

I still have (if I can find it..lol) the meth setup that
Guard Dog developed out some years back.

That setup uses 8-Nozzles via a spacer under the lid
of a stock LSA.

During development, he spent a lot of time making sure
that each cylinder received the same amount of Meth.

Meth makes much more power then does E-85.

Meth also cools the internals of the engine much better. . . .
***I have seen frost build up on the intake manifolds
of cars at the track using Meth after a run, even though
it was hotter than 72°F ambient temperature.

Therefore; Intercooler sizes can be reduced.

I accept cash, checks, money orders, visa, etc..;)

Cheers
 
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No dyno but this is more appropriate to where the car is now - a third gear street pull. this was 80*F so boost is lower (I'll pull 19+ in cooler air).

So I'm around 18-19psi, timing in the mid-teens at peak torque then ramping up to 21-24* advance relative to ethanol percent.

If peak torque is around 4600 RPM, I am octane limited as you know so I'm closer to 15-16*F on 93 octane.


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You wrote:
"So I'm around 18-19psi, timing in the mid-teens at peak torque then ramping up to 21-24* advance relative to ethanol percent."

This, you have to fix!

First, it can become very destructive to the engine.
Second, it's definitely killing your HP.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Here is what I come up with when you move to a quality
E-85. First HP given is for Gas. Second HP given is
for a quality E-85. Runner CC's gives the optimum
runner volume required when using Gasoline.

Engine CFM. . .HP on Gas. .Runner Volume / CC's. . ..fwHP
1236.8829280904

Your cylinder head runner volume is, as I recall, 278 CC's.
So your right there on the edge with a Roots Blower.

-regarding the cylinder head runner volume'
Remember, Adianaty did not run a 'Roots Blower'.

He ran a twin screw 'Supercharger'. . . So his
Supercharger would simply go into 'Compressible
Flow' and 'Pack' the air molecules into the runner.

But a roots style blower does not work well
in compressible flow.

--------------------------------------------------------------

-dug deep and found the info-
Here is what Adianaty wrote to me years ago
when he was building that engine.

"The runner is small considering at 278cc and the
exhaust port has some tricks to it that helped keep
the torque curve flatter up top.

Cheers
 

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I don’t think the KONG kids are gaining the traction ppl once thought. I been reading on FB the ctsv brick and lid is still the best option. Power and et wise.
 

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Just a thought. . .
Instead of laying out all that cash for the Kong Lid,
you might consider injecting Meth.

I still have (if I can find it..lol) the meth setup that
Guard Dog developed out some years back.

That setup uses 8-Nozzles via a spacer under the lid
of a stock LSA.

During development, he spent a lot of time making sure
that each cylinder received the same amount of Meth.

Meth makes much more power then does E-85.

Meth also cools the internals of the engine much better. . . .
***I have seen frost build up on the intake manifolds
of cars at the track using Meth after a run, even though
it was hotter than 72°F ambient temperature.

Therefore; Intercooler sizes can be reduced.

I accept cash, checks, money orders, visa, etc..;)

Cheers
Jessie,
To the RD point, Cal Hartline and a lot of guys around him (that go fast) use a meth set-up. They have it triggered off a baro or map switch (not sure/no clue). One guy in the manual class with me, has a ZL1 Camaro, that he Drives 2+hrs to Caddy Attack, bolts on slicks and bangs low 10's, and its not crazy built. yes I know the weight difference, just talking Meth inject that he uses, thats set up and tuned in by Cal. It makes me think about it..
 

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Discussion Starter · #1,126 ·
I don’t think the KONG kids are gaining the traction ppl once thought. I been reading on FB the ctsv brick and lid is still the best option. Power and et wise.
As I've said elsewhere, the lack of good comparison data is telling. I'd like to see some of these comments and data though. It still might be worth it for cooling.

Ctsv vs the world group has been sitting on my join request for a week, so I can't search much. :D

Problem with meth is I don't really want to mess with the wiring and all that- plus another point of failure.

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As I've said elsewhere, the lack of good comparison data is telling. I'd like to see some of these comments and data though. It still might be worth it for cooling.

Ctsv vs the world group has been sitting on my join request for a week, so I can't search much. :D

Problem with meth is I don't really want to mess with the wiring and all that- plus another point of failure.

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Yeah meth is just another headache. If you have good access to E85 I wouldn't bother with Meth even if the most competative people do end up using it.

I also have read these facebook posts claiming that the CTS-V stock lid is THA BOMB and somehow better than the ZL1 lid and the Kong lid now.
I don't believe it and the "data" presented is basically just people quoting Justin White...whose word literally holds zero weight in my opinion.

Its the same people saying that grinding the ribs off the inside of the lid is the best thing since sliced bread and that they can run "4 digit horsepower" on stock engine and transmission no problem loooool.
 
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The ctsv lid does have a larger heat exchanger, so that is not out of the realm of possibility. However from what I have read, it has other issues like the fins not holding up as well. For me both reliability and ultimate performance are important.

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Jessie,
To the RD point, Cal Hartline and a lot of guys around him (that go fast) use a meth set-up. They have it triggered off a baro or map switch (not sure/no clue). One guy in the manual class with me, has a ZL1 Camaro, that he Drives 2+hrs to Caddy Attack, bolts on slicks and bangs low 10's, and its not crazy built. yes I know the weight difference, just talking Meth inject that he uses, thats set up and tuned in by Cal. It makes me think about it..
If the proper / sufficient Meth System is used,
and someone who understands how to tune
for it (as Cal does) the HP and Torque increases
can be 'Huge'!!

It comes down to; 1) when to feed the Meth,
and 2) how much Meth to feed the engine.

And #3. . .It needs to be 'Injected' into the
engine whereby all cylinders receive the
exact same amount. . . . .

Compared to the cooling effects that E-85 has
versus Meth. It's like E-85 is a fan, and Meth
is a refrigerator with these engine platforms.

The above does not touch on other reasons
Meth is better for these Engines, but keeping
the intake manifold and cylinder temperature
down is reason enough to use it (JMHO).

--------------------------------------------------------

Finally; I have functioned as the starter for many
drag runs at drag strips over the years. If anyone
has ever stood next to a car running Meth, with
the Engine RPM up at about 5k -6k, and you are
not wearing ear protection, you would understand.

The exhaust note is quite different than for
E-85 and / or Gasoline.

There is a very good reason for that, and it
relates to performance.

Also, after a run on Meth, put your hands on
the intake manifold. It is much cooler than one
that has been run on either E-85 or Gasoline.

Cheers,
RD
 

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RD, I assume this is post blower meth you are talking about?

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RD, I assume this is post blower meth you are talking about?

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Yes, that would be my approach anyway. .lol

Before I became ill, my 434 CID build was going to run
on the following fuel cocktail:

1) E-85
2) As required,we would inject a mixture of Meth and
Toluene into the intake manifold.

As I have explained before; Meth has a very high Ron
Rating, but suffers from a too low of a Mon Rating.

Conversely, Toluene has a very High Mon number.

By mixing the two together, you get excellent
Ron and Mon Ratings.

Injecting an Oxygenated Fuel directly into the intake
manifold, increases the Oxygen Content inhaled into
the cylinder around the Inlet / TB.

This is how you can make the 'Big Power' with these engines. . . .

I don't know how Cal is doing it. I have been meaning to
call him and ask him, but hope to get around to it soon.

But the best system I could purchase back in 2012
was the one designed by Guard Dog from this forum.

Cheers,
Bruce
 

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Yeah meth is just another headache. If you have good access to E85 I wouldn't bother with Meth even if the most competative people do end up using it.

I also have read these facebook posts claiming that the CTS-V stock lid is THA BOMB and somehow better than the ZL1 lid and the Kong lid now.
I don't believe it and the "data" presented is basically just people quoting Justin White...whose word literally holds zero weight in my opinion.

Its the same people saying that grinding the ribs off the inside of the lid is the best thing since sliced bread and that they can run "4 digit horsepower" on stock engine and transmission no problem loooool.
I get what your saying. But guys like Rick Crawford and Cal Hartline are also backing these claims and unlike most they have the numbers, et and MPH to prove.
 

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Discussion Starter · #1,133 ·
I get what your saying. But guys like Rick Crawford and Cal Hartline are also backing these claims and unlike most they have the numbers, et and MPH to prove.
Absolutely- they have the skillset to make the most out of "average" parts, which by definition the rest of us would likely not replicate their performance even with a similar build.

There are also details they are likely leaving out relating to their performance.

But since I am using ethanol, I don't have the desire to use Meth at this time - even if it is superior. But I'll check into it further.

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I get what your saying. But guys like Rick Crawford and Cal Hartline are also backing these claims and unlike most they have the numbers, et and MPH to prove.
Yeah...but like Random just said, they 100% leave key info out (which is fine because they are not obligated to spill their secrets).
Also, even if they are able to make records with the stock lid that doesn't scientifically prove to me that it is better than a kong lid or a ZL1 lid, just that they were able to make it work with their combo.

And I know Meth works, im just saying the benefit isn't great enough for my use case and most other people to be worth the headache when they already run E85. Yes Meth can provide great chemical intercooling (which also happens to make the lid/intercooler less of a limiting factor which is probably why they are able to go fast with a stock lid).
You know what else provides even better chemical intercooling and EVEN MORE POWER? Nitrous...lol But a lot of people don't run nitrous for similar reasons. It is a pain to have to rely on another system that you have to remember to fill and is another point of failure on these mostly street driven cars.

I also have no hard data but I would bet some money that without meth a Kong lid will cool better and flow better than a stock lid. And I don't believe the ribs on the inside of the V lid are big enough to make a noticeable difference. There has been zero real evidence for it (besides nice ET's from a few hardcore racers but that isn't science).
 

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Yeah...but like Random just said, they 100% leave key info out (which is fine because they are not obligated to spill their secrets).
Also, even if they are able to make records with the stock lid that doesn't scientifically prove to me that it is better than a kong lid or a ZL1 lid, just that they were able to make it work with their combo.

And I know Meth works, im just saying the benefit isn't great enough for my use case and most other people to be worth the headache when they already run E85. Yes Meth can provide great chemical intercooling (which also happens to make the lid/intercooler less of a limiting factor which is probably why they are able to go fast with a stock lid).
You know what else provides even better chemical intercooling and EVEN MORE POWER? Nitrous...lol But a lot of people don't run nitrous for similar reasons. It is a pain to have to rely on another system that you have to remember to fill and is another point of failure on these mostly street driven cars.

I also have no hard data but I would bet some money that without meth a Kong lid will cool better and flow better than a stock lid. And I don't believe the ribs on the inside of the V lid are big enough to make a noticeable difference. There has been zero real evidence for it (besides nice ET's from a few hardcore racers but that isn't science).
I gave this post a 'Like', because you have given reason
for some to 'Go' this route, as well as reason for some, to
'Not' go this route.

I offered the Methanol Route to Jesse, as Jesse is
always looking for more power. . .'And', his car has been
sufficiently upgraded to handle the power that one would
make using the 'Fuel Cocktail' I provided.

Also, the cost to do this would most likely not be much
more than the cost of the Kong Lid.

So, I posted to give Jesse an alternative, before he spent
the money on the Kong Lid. . .

Jesse likes to kid around a lot, but Jesse is really
a 'Critical Thinker', who tends to 'Connect The Dots'
using the 'Left Side' of his brain, in a rational manner.

Nice Post!

Cheers,
Bruce
 

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Jesse, rational, haha! Bruce has been drinking again! ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #1,137 ·
Shut up, Cunts.

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Discussion Starter · #1,138 · (Edited)
So a DOH! Moment.

I've got $500 worth of AN fittings and PTFE line coming tomorrow, plus the Motion Raceworks flex-sensor adapter in -8 AN... and my DW 90psi pressure regulator along with the Radium rails and pulse damper...

And I realized two things: I don't have my fuelabs filter yet - those dicks.

AND... I neglected to figure out what imma going to do with the fuel rail sensor - which I believe is in one of the plastic Ts near the tank.

Anyone have experience or suggestions to moving this sensor, or if it has a thread I can find an adapter for? I'd like to have a plan before pulling it apart.

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Discussion Starter · #1,140 ·
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