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Discussion Starter #542 (Edited)
Is this some kind of gay joke - I haven't watched the show...

ETA: it's the snout shaft bearing. Sounds like it just failed - the rotors are good and there is no axial or lateral play in the snout - just noise, perhaps a ball bearing failed.

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Pitter patter, let’s get at’er.
Get er done.
Stop pussy footin’ around.

All the same. Just having fun.
Seriously though, you really need to watch the show.



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Are you going to swap out the snout bearings and press on (pun intended). I really want to see you run the 2.3, but I understand if you move to the 2650.
 
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Discussion Starter #545
I'd like to bump to the 2650 for my build, but the 2.3 felt really strong.

I'm going to send the snout back to fix the bearing and if I can unload it for a decent price I'll swap to the 2650. I suspect the bearing was overheated when GForce cut/welded the snout, as everything else is perfect and no slop in the rotors, pulley, even the snout shaft is good- just ball bearing noise.

I'll just have to wait and see - even the Kong is unproven at this point (beyond the testimonial of those who profit from it).

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I hear that. To be completely honest with you, I'd rather have the Maggie 2.3 over the Kong 2650 if we're talking spending $6K. The Maggie comes with a dual brick lid with superior cooling ability than the stock or ZL1 lid.
 
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Discussion Starter #547
I can't say I've seen very good results from the Maggie.

Mine will probably sell for $3.5 on Facebook

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I'd like to bump to the 2650 for my build, but the 2.3 felt really strong.

I'm going to send the snout back to fix the bearing and if I can unload it for a decent price I'll swap to the 2650. I suspect the bearing was overheated when GForce cut/welded the snout, as everything else is perfect and no slop in the rotors, pulley, even the snout shaft is good- just ball bearing noise.

I'll just have to wait and see - even the Kong is unproven at this point (beyond the testimonial of those who profit from it).

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The job of a Supercharger is to compress the air once the induction
system moves into 'Compressible Flow'.

While the VE% has gone to hell once the engine moves into
compressible flow, the engine still receives additional air via
the compressing of the air molecules. You can therefore add
more air molecules per unit of induction system area.

You can only fill the cylinder so much with an 'Roots Style' Blower.

The limitations are many with this type of blower, with the biggest
issue being it won't hold a high enough pressure ratio, along with
not retaining it's efficiency at those higher pressure ratios.

At 1000 hp, we would 'Assume' the engine is receiving 1500 cfm.

You weren't looking to make 1000 hp. In our conversations you pretty
much stated that 900 hp would be just great!

According to Brett / JokerZ, his 2300's push out at roughly 1500 cfm.

But your 102mm TB is not going to pass that much air, restricting
the InFlow of the engine as to how much hp it will make.

I make the above statement because your going to limit the
engine rpm to no more than 6800 rpm's, which will limit
the piston speed to 4,250 Feet Per Minute (FPM).

The above means; at 6800 rpm's the depression across the
valve will weaken. A cylinder fills because of an delta that
'Must' exist between the intake manifold side of the intake valve,
versus the piston / cylinder side of the valve.

Without going into the math (to keep others happy..lol) I will
simply give you the 'End Result'.

-regarding this engine platform-
Your at 93% of achieving full NA cylinder flow.

Now, understand that with a simple 'Roots Blower' one should
desire to be at 100%. Anything less means the blower is going
to have to move into compressible flow, which is something a
roots blower is very bad at doing.

To achieve 100% NA efficiency, you would have to spin the
engine to 7200 rpm's.

While others will argue; the first issue I have with that is
'Hydraulic Lifters'. The second is valve weight and accompanying
valve spring pressure, retainer weight, etc., which in turn generates
additional problems with hydraulic lifters.

Yes, some are going to come back and say. . . .
No problem spinning 7200 with their hydraulic lifters.

But how much more hp would they pick up moving over
to an solid roller?

Can you make hp above 7200 rpm's under 'Certain'
conditions. . . Yes!

But in most cases, most hydraulic cam and hydraulic
lifter and valve spring combinations fail on the Spintron
at around 7200 rpm's.

This is why I choose to run a 4.0" stroke in these engines
when using a hydraulic lifter as you can generate sufficient
piston speed with the 4" stroke at 6800 rpm's, rather than
having to spin the engine with the 3.75" stroke to 7200.

Finally Jesse; larger rotor packs take more HP to turn,
and that 'Parasitic' HP rises as engine rpm rises.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

And for those that have already begun the vilification of
Brett, please stop.

Shit Happens, and in Hot Rodding it happens more often..lol

There is no doubt in my mind that Brett will repair this
for Jesse at 'No Charge'!

Cheers
 

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Lemme know when you are ready to sell the 2300. I might be interested. I might be crazy. Keep me on the short list. :)
 

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I can't say I've seen very good results from the Maggie.

Mine will probably sell for $3.5 on Facebook

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I've seen a good number of builds with the Maggie in the 800+ whp range. I'd like to get one, bolt my 108mm TB to it, and send it. I'm betting I could make 900whp on E with that combo.

But you can't beat damn near half price for the same rotor pack.

Full disclosure, I hate the look of our superchargers (2.3 included). 50% of me wanting a Maggie is aesthetic.

You should put a 108 on yours.

Down the road. Cant's wait to see what this bad boy makes for power. I might have said that already.
 

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I can't say I've seen very good results from the Maggie.

Mine will probably sell for $3.5 on Facebook

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I’ll give you $3.50 for it right now, don’t even worry about fixing that piece of shit!
 

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Mr Duck. Thanks for "snapping out of it" and posting calcs.

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Let's just reduce it all down to something we can all identify with;
There are always politics that take place wherever people congregate.

I have tolerated this for many, many years on this forum.

But I do tend to 'Flair Up', to use a simple term once in a while,
when I see money begin to overwhelm the science and math.

Purchasing something solely based on someone's 'Claimed'
chassis dyno numbers, just doesn't bode well with me.

Respectfully,
RD
 

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Discussion Starter #554 (Edited)
Rotor pack sounds and feels solid.


Notice the welds near the snout shaft bearing, there is no discernible slop by hand in any direction, just the "sound" when rotating it quickly. I pinned the bypass shaft to make sure there was no conflicting rattles on the video. I know, I know... it looks like I'm rubbing one out.



@Rubber Duck:

Going with the Kong 2650 has an upside: it is ready to accommodate a 108mm TB to maximize the InFlow, which as you know is critical to feeding these PD blowers and maximizing cylinder fill when I am limited to a self-imposed 6800 rpm redline and 4250 FPM piston speed. :D. Greg Kong also has reported very good flow with these, generating 20+ psi on 427" builds with reasonable rotor speed and good heads.

We also know "being happy" with a given HP goal is not the same thing as "well... while I'm in there..."

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Rotor pack sounds and feels solid.


Notice the welds near the snout shaft bearing, there is no discernible slop by hand in any direction, just the "sound" when rotating it quickly. I pinned the bypass shaft to make sure there was no conflicting rattles on the video. I know, I know... it looks like I'm rubbing one out.



@Rubber Duck:

Going with the Kong 2650 has an upside: it is ready to accommodate a 108mm TB to maximize the InFlow, which as you know is critical to feeding these PD blowers and maximizing cylinder fill when I am limited to a self-imposed 6800 rpm redline and 4250 FPM piston speed. :D. Greg Kong also has reported very good flow with these, generating 20+ psi on 427" builds with reasonable rotor speed and good heads.

We also know "being happy" with a given HP goal is not the same thing as "well... while I'm in there..."

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Yep, it's never enough HP, until your car either cannot
be used as a daily driver, or it continually breaks..:mad:

Let's assume we spin the blower 25,000 rpm's.
Using the simple formula I have presented to the forum members before,
which is; the volumetric output, given in cfm, is equal to. . .
=> (cid * rpm / 1728)= volumetric output given in cfm.

1.9L is equal to 115.9 cid
2.3L is equal to 140.3 cid
2.65L is equal to 158.6 cid

We can then surmise the following.
The 1.9L would be flowing 1,677 cfm / 'Hot Air'.
The 2.3L would be flowing 2,030 cfm / 'Hot Air'
The 2.65 would be flowing 2,295 cfm / 'Hot Air'.

Now, move that hot air through an efficient mass flow recovery
system, and it most likely (?) reduces down to 'Something' like this;

The 1.9L would probably (?) provide for ~1250 cfm
The 2.3L would probably (?) provide for ~1400 cfm
The 2.65 would probably (?) provide for ~1600 cfm.

Potential HP on high quality / racing gasoline, whereby the InFlow is 'Not' restricted:
1.9L _ ~868
2.3L _ ~938
2.65L_~1072

Some of the above is related to my experiences with these
engines, and some is simply SWAG..LOL

By the way Jesse; did you replace your axles along with the driveshaft?
And transmissions are not cheap either..:eek:

Cheers
 

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Yep, it's never enough HP, until your car either cannot
be used as a daily driver, or it continually breaks..:mad:

Let's assume we spin the blower 25,000 rpm's.
Using the simple formula I have presented to the forum members before,
which is; the volumetric output, given in cfm, is equal to. . .
=> (cid * rpm / 1728)= volumetric output given in cfm.

1.9L is equal to 115.9 cid
2.3L is equal to 140.3 cid
2.65L is equal to 158.6 cid

We can then surmise the following.
The 1.9L would be flowing 1,677 cfm / 'Hot Air'.
The 2.3L would be flowing 2,030 cfm / 'Hot Air'
The 2.65 would be flowing 2,295 cfm / 'Hot Air'.

Now, move that hot air through an efficient mass flow recovery
system, and it most likely (?) reduces down to 'Something' like this;

The 1.9L would probably (?) provide for ~1250 cfm
The 2.3L would probably (?) provide for ~1400 cfm
The 2.65 would probably (?) provide for ~1600 cfm.

Potential HP on high quality / racing gasoline, whereby the InFlow is 'Not' restricted:
1.9L _ ~868
2.3L _ ~938
2.65L_~1072

Some of the above is related to my experiences with these
engines, and some is simply SWAG..LOL

By the way Jesse; did you replace your axles along with the driveshaft?
And transmissions are not cheap either..:eek:

Cheers
Bruce, thanks again for remaining active.
 

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Discussion Starter #557
Yep, it's never enough HP, until your car either cannot
be used as a daily driver, or it continually breaks..:mad:

- ugly math-ish numbers removed -

By the way Jesse; did you replace your axles along with the driveshaft?
And transmissions are not cheap either..:eek:

Cheers
Yes, I have replaced the driveshaft, axle shafts, differential, suspension bushings, coilovers, etc - as well as almost every other component of the drivetrain... except the transmission. But the TR6060 is arguably the least expensive and easiest component to replace at this point! ha.
 

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Yes, I have replaced the driveshaft, axle shafts, differential, suspension bushings, coilovers, etc - as well as almost every other component of the drivetrain... except the transmission.

But the TR6060 is arguably the least expensive and easiest component to replace at this point! ha.
I am so very happy to hear, that your eagerly awaiting the time, when you get to replace your transmission.. :)
 
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Discussion Starter #559
I am so very happy to hear, that your eagerly awaiting the time, when you get to replace your transmission.. :)
I'm going to notify the Mods: time to change the title of this thread to "Transmission swap after a Kong 2650 Build" thread. :D

I'm open to suggestions on pulley ratio - with a 9.5 lower. This seems to be somewhat uncharted territory.
 

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DUUUUCK?
 
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