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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Motor showed up today safely (although I thought the driver was going to dump it at least twice...), pretty much as advertised. Of course nothing is easy - unbeknownst to the seller a YT rocker busted a retaining clip as one piece of it was in the lifter valley and the remainder is probably in the pan.

One more thing on my to-do list!

I'll be adding photos and editing this post and others as I go, so please dont "quote" me.

The build list (adianaty's engine):
All Pro 12-3 LS3 style heads (Titanium intake, inconel exhaust), ported by Tony Mamo:
253 / 176 @ 0.300
321 / 216 @ 0.400
360 / 245 @ 0.500
396 / 258 @ 0.600
406 / 263 @ 0.650 lift
Approx 10.2:1 static compression, 8.32:1 DCR

ERL super deck ~4.126 bore
Callies Magnum 3.750" stroke
Lunati I-Beam 4340 6.250" rod (646 grams avg)
Weisco coated pistons/rings (437 grams avg)

Cam: 234 / 252, 0.641 / 0.648 lift, 119

- Now a Jokerz / GForce TVS2300 conversion with Lingenfelter snout, 102mm TB.

Dsteck Aux pump
ID1300x2 injectors (yes, finally going ethanol when available).
9.55/2.55 pulley ratio

I'll also be replacing most of the accessory pullies and the A/C pump and condensor for maintenance as I'm at 72k miles.


 

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Reserved for Heckling...
 

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ib4unavowed twin turbski comments....
 

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Discussion Starter #5
ib4unavowed twin turbski comments....
I chose ID1300x injectors "just in case," so it will probably happen...

eventually. ! )
 

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I chose a Fore Triple pump and ID1300's for the same reason. They'll support any wild idea's I pull out of my ass. 427 iron block with a heartbeat is what I was considering but TT's... tempting to say the least.

Good luck Random. Looking forward to following this thread.
 

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I chose ID1300x injectors "just in case," so it will probably happen...

eventually. ! )
Oh Boy!. . . Then we can really start to break 'Everything'. . LOL
 

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I chose a Fore Triple pump and ID1300's for the same reason. They'll support any wild idea's I pull out of my ass. 427 iron block with a heartbeat is what I was considering but TT's... tempting to say the least.

Good luck Random. Looking forward to following this thread.
GM lsX Iron Block I hope. . . .
 

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Discussion Starter #10
So FYI, the 2 ton cherry picker at Harbor Freight sucks. It's like no one has ever used it to pull an engine before.

I was just trying to get the new motor onto a stand and the "forked" legs of the cherry picker are just the right angle to prevent you from lining the motor up with the stand. I had to set the engine down, move the lift plate to one end and pick the engine up at a 30-40* angle (bellhousing side point down), then pick that half of the motor up to get it into the stand.

Not cool, Chinese engineer.

I can only imagine what kind of pain this will be to actually get the motor out of the car... I guess I chose the wrong stand - I got the one that has a small "T" at the end (for better stability), but it hits the legs of the hoist. Should have gone for the 2 ton stand that has the legs go straight out.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Unavowed puts down some good mph..:D

Soft launch and he does not break parts.
{ahem}

Dare I assume, Duck, that you will be posting a few pages of math and HP/TQ predictions soon? :D

I need to find out what size valves are in the heads though.
 

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I hope the cherry picker is long enough. I bought the 1 ton and it barely extended to the front of the engine so I took it back. The 2 ton is only 10” longer I think. Even bought the useless load leveler and returned it too.
 

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{ahem}

Dare I assume, Duck, that you will be posting a few pages of math and HP/TQ predictions soon? :D

I need to find out what size valves are in the heads though.
I believe the heads use a 2.204" intake valve.

They flow very well up to 0.600" of cam lift.

The flow from 0.100" to convergence lift on these
LS series of heads is what we should be porting for.

Convergence lift on a 2.204" valve is equal to (2.204 * 0.25)= 0.551" of valve lift.

I believe that WCCH did the initial porting and Tony Mamo finished the heads.
That of course can be simply verified by asking Ali.

Cutting and pasting from your post above:
253 / 176 @ 0.300
321 / 216 @ 0.400
360 / 245 @ 0.500
396 / 258 @ 0.600
406 / 263 @ 0.650 lift

If we take the 360 cfm @ 0.500"
and the 396 cfm @ 0.600" and
average them we can **approximate**
the flow at 0.551" lift.

Average flow would be ((360 + 396) / 2)= 378 cfm.

That's a 'Shit Ton' of flow!!!

Ali is a real smart guy.
You got a nice engine my friend..:D

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Superchargers / Turbos, etc.

If we take the average flow and multiply it by 8 and divide it by 2
(engine turns over twice to fire all 8 cylinders), we can estimate
the flow through the engine for each 360* of crankshaft movement.

The above can be reduced down to (378 * 4)= 1512 cfm.
That would be the minimum I would desire to see the Supercharger or Turbos combo flow.

The cylinder demand at 7200 rpm would amount to about 1002 cfm.
This value does not use the %VE formula that is commonly used.

-example-
100% Volumetric Efficiency equals (7200 * 400) / 3456)= 833 cfm.

So then if we divide 1002 by 833, we find that we are now working
at a %VE of 120%


So after 1002 cfm your going to 'Have To' move into compressible flow
in order to fill the cylinders.

1002 cfm will produce about 671 fwHP
1512 cfm will produce about 1013 fwHP

So the cylinder will go into compressible flow at ~671 fwHP.
The cylinder heads will go into compressible flow at ~1013 fwHP.

I believe that Ali made more hp than the 1013.
But he had a compressor that works well in compressible flow. . . You Don't..LOL.

And if I am going to do the math for you,
there will be a 'Test' at the end...:D

Take care Jesse!
 

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I hope the cherry picker is long enough. I bought the 1 ton and it barely extended to the front of the engine so I took it back. The 2 ton is only 10” longer I think. Even bought the useless load leveler and returned it too.
Hot Rodding carries with it many disappointments. . :p

Cheers
 

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Unavowed puts down some good mph..:D

Soft launch and he does not break parts.
Thank you, but...

I believe the heads use a 2.204" intake valve.

They flow very well up to 0.600" of cam lift.


Cutting and pasting from your post above:
253 / 176 @ 0.300
321 / 216 @ 0.400
360 / 245 @ 0.500
396 / 258 @ 0.600
406 / 263 @ 0.650 lift

If we take the 360 cfm @ 0.500"
and the 396 cfm @ 0.600" and
average them we can **approximate*
the flow at 0.551" lift.

Average flow would be ((360 + 396) / 2)= 378 cfm.

That's a 'Shit Ton' of flow!!!

Ali is a real smart guy.
You got a nice engine my friend..:D
This makes my 2.165 intake valve'd, 336 cfm heads seem woefully inadequate.
 

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Predicted HP & Torque:

The most I have heard of an ported 1.9L TVS Blower flowing is 1250 cfm.
So let's run some different numbers using the %ASE / percentage of air standard efficiency.

The results are for Gasoline.
E85 will usually add between 75 fwHP to 100 fwHP.

1) (1250 * 0.67)= 837 fwHP
2) (1250 * 0.68)= 850 fwHP
3) (1250 * 0.69)= 863 fwHP
4) (1250 * 0.70)= 875 fwHP

The torque on these engines is most usually about the same as the fwHP.

This is because with 14.7 psi of boost, the engine is force fed the air
at about twice the volume per unit of time (rpm) as an NA Engine is.

Use a real compressor, such as a twin screw, or turbos and that all changes.

An IC Engine is the happiest at peak torque, as that is where %VE is the highest.

The Mass Flow Rate of the engine requirements go up as the rpm increases.

But the actual mass flow rate decreases with most engines, as a percentage versus time,
as the rpm increases above peak torque.

So your torque and bmep fall off because of the decrease in %VE as rpm increases
even though the mass flow rate is higher at peak fwHP!

Remember Jesse. . . . There will be a test..LOL

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Finally; the %ASE values I plugged in above are based on
'Trapped Compression Ratios' versus 'Thermal Efficiency'.

Generally speaking a %ASE of 67% relates to an compression
ratio of about 14.2:1. The higher the compression ratio
the higher the thermal efficiency and %ASE will be.

So as the 'Trapped Compression Ratio' increases, so does the
thermal efficiency of the engine and so will the %ASE.

Cheers
 

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Thank you, but...



This makes my 2.165 intake valve'd, 336 cfm heads seem woefully inadequate.
Woefully inadequate. . LOL

The size of the intake valve required is connected to the bore size.
The size of the cylinder head runner is connected to the engine size.
The above is typically quantified via an air flow bench.
Units of flow are given in cfm and velocity is given in fps.

The above all revolves around how many 'Gulps Per Second' the cylinder will draw.
We also call it cylinder fill time.

If the above values are not sufficient, then we must add duration to the cam.

So your term Woeful should now be related to **Woefull ^3**

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In all seriousness. . . Your running a very good mph for 'Street Iron'.

I wouldn't worry about it much and actually applaud you for the work
you have done, without spending +$300k..:eek:

If I recall;
Engine size is 416 - 417 and you ran about 144 mph. . .Correct!

Cheers
 

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I would use unavowed’s tuner for sure!!


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