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Discussion Starter #1
Hello Everyone,

its come to that time where i need a new set of rears. There was a hole in my stock tires and ive heard they dont recommend plugging them as they are high performance run flats.

After some searching, Ive decided i want to go with the new Michelin Pilot 4S, as it is a slight upgrade from the Supersport as I have read and have been told by Michelin.

My predicament is this. I will be staying on the Stock Wheel, and i am thinking of going to a 305/30R19 on instead of the stock 295. i have heard mixed opinions on what this will actually do to the vehicle. I have heard this will improve overall grip. ive heard this will only improve straightline grip. i have heard a wider tire will cause the vehicle to be slower or worse while turning at high speed because the tire is too wide for the rim. Ive heard that the sidewall is the same size or slightly smaller and that wont help me grip under straightline acceleration because you need a taller sidewall to get more grip.

I daily drive this thing, and i never really thought grip was a huge problem. I wanted to upgrade to the latest and greatest tire even though i probably wont be able to tell a difference in the same size. I just want to hear some straightforward answers about this will do or anyones experience by going 1/2 inch wider per tire. If this will not improve overall grip I will just stick with the 295s

Thanks for your help
 

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These are just my experiences. I have never tried those Michelin’s. I mounted 305 Mickey Thompson’s and the car handled like absolute shit. It was scary above 80mph. I went with stock size toyo r888r’s and LOVE them. Only drawbacks they have are aggressive compound (tire life) and they do hum at highway speeds if you have radio and a/c off. You are correct for straight line grip you want a taller tire not wider. I know 305’s sound and look cool vs 295 but I highly doubt you would notice a performance difference. That’s my contribution


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Should be no problem plugging or patching a tire. Has anyone ever seen a patched tire fail? As far as grip, generally wider tires boost cornering grip while;e taller tires boost acceleration grip. Also, has any V come with Run flats?
 

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These are just my experiences. I have never tried those Michelin’s. I mounted 305 Mickey Thompson’s and the car handled like absolute shit. It was scary above 80mph. I went with stock size toyo r888r’s and LOVE them. Only drawbacks they have are aggressive compound (tire life) and they do hum at highway speeds if you have radio and a/c off. You are correct for straight line grip you want a taller tire not wider. I know 305’s sound and look cool vs 295 but I highly doubt you would notice a performance difference. That’s my contribution


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I dont believe you’re gaining enough sidewall to see that benefit here. You might actually see a slight performance increase from getting out of a run flat more than what you gain from the negligible amount of side wall simply because of unsprung weight. They are trrribly heavy.

What I like about the 4s is that performance is not that much less than in 888 in straight line, dry performance, while still maintaining excellent wet and cornering performance. If you want anything that is substantially better, you need to go to a drag radial. In that case, you will lose a lot of cornering and wet performance
 

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Should be no problem plugging or patching a tire. Has anyone ever seen a patched tire fail? As far as grip, generally wider tires boost cornering grip while;e taller tires boost acceleration grip. Also, has any V come with Run flats?
I didn’t think so, but I could be wrong. They aren’t worth it, IMO.
 

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I dont believe you’re gaining enough sidewall to see that benefit here. You might actually see a slight performance increase from getting out of a run flat more than what you gain from the negligible amount of side wall simply because of unsprung weight. They are trrribly heavy.

What I like about the 4s is that performance is not that much less than in 888 in straight line, dry performance, while still maintaining excellent wet and cornering performance. If you want anything that is substantially better, you need to go to a drag radial. In that case, you will lose a lot of cornering and wet performance
When did I say I gained performance from a larger side wall on my STOCK SIZE toyo r888r’s? I would put money on any stock vs stock V3 with the factory Michelin’s and the Toyo’s. Same exact size. You say the straight lie performance is similar. Have you used both or going off of tire rack reviews? Not going to argue with wet traction but you really think the 4s will handle better then the r compound toyo around a track?

You know the toyos are a pound lighter also correct? I’m also fully aware that a drag radials will perform better at a drag strip than a street tire. Seems you need to get your facts straight before you correct someone and give someone bad information.


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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
i guess i misunderstood what the dealer had said about the tires, and i am fairly sure they used the term run flats but maybe the person i spoke to was misinformed.The tires I have now are the Stock Michelin SuperSports

Im pretty sure i thought they said they do not recommend the tire getting patched, and I did call a couple of dealers to confirm this. I assume this is because it is a 640 HP vehicle and it could be a weak point in the tire at high speeds. Either way i have 6/32 Tread life left, and maybe I can just throw these tires back
 

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And someone can correct me if I’m wrong and I’ll confirm at home. My Michelin pilot super sports are not run flats.


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Hello Everyone,

its come to that time where i need a new set of rears. There was a hole in my stock tires and ive heard they dont recommend plugging them as they are high performance run flats.

After some searching, Ive decided i want to go with the new Michelin Pilot 4S, as it is a slight upgrade from the Supersport as I have read and have been told by Michelin.

My predicament is this. I will be staying on the Stock Wheel, and i am thinking of going to a 305/30R19 on instead of the stock 295. i have heard mixed opinions on what this will actually do to the vehicle. I have heard this will improve overall grip. ive heard this will only improve straightline grip. i have heard a wider tire will cause the vehicle to be slower or worse while turning at high speed because the tire is too wide for the rim. Ive heard that the sidewall is the same size or slightly smaller and that wont help me grip under straightline acceleration because you need a taller sidewall to get more grip.

I daily drive this thing, and i never really thought grip was a huge problem. I wanted to upgrade to the latest and greatest tire even though i probably wont be able to tell a difference in the same size. I just want to hear some straightforward answers about this will do or anyones experience by going 1/2 inch wider per tire. If this will not improve overall grip I will just stick with the 295s

Thanks for your help
If you DD the car why waste money to go larger if grip was not a problem? Driving on the street leave it stock and go with a good solid tire that works for you. R888R I have on my wagon and they do hum and are loud. Had Bridgestone pole position prior and Michelin prior to that, all stock sizes. Any of the performance tires are good depending on what the application is. Based on daily driving, you would be best served with a 200+ treadwear rating with solid wet weather capabilities with the stock size. Going larger is great for more rubber meeting the road (always a plus) but your application does not really require it. Unless of course you like the look of a larger tire and cost is not an issue. If you are not tracking the car, plug the tire and run it until it is bald.
 

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When did I say I gained performance from a larger side wall on my STOCK SIZE toyo r888r’s? I would put money on any stock vs stock V3 with the factory Michelin’s and the Toyo’s. Same exact size. You say the straight lie performance is similar. Have you used both or going off of tire rack reviews? Not going to argue with wet traction but you really think the 4s will handle better then the r compound toyo around a track?

You know the toyos are a pound lighter also correct? I’m also fully aware that a drag radials will perform better at a drag strip than a street tire. Seems you need to get your facts straight before you correct someone and give someone bad information.


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Sorry, I should have been clear. I am only referring to the street. OP was only talking about going from 295 to 305, and I am pretty sure that change isn’t going to make the sidewall a relevant argument. If you went to a DR or slick and a 245-275, absolutely.

For Xcross and general road tracks, yes, 888s are really good.

A majority of drivers really only push their cars in straight lines on the road and a bit in the turns. Their needs are different than the more serious “drivers”. OP wasn’t really clear, so I think we all kind of made assumptions as to what his/her needs are.

If it’s a DD like I assumed, it’s hard to beat the Michelins. If its not and you want aggressive, 888s are better.
 

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When did I say I gained performance from a larger side wall on my STOCK SIZE toyo r888r’s? I would put money on any stock vs stock V3 with the factory Michelin’s and the Toyo’s. Same exact size. You say the straight lie performance is similar. Have you used both or going off of tire rack reviews? Not going to argue with wet traction but you really think the 4s will handle better then the r compound toyo around a track?

You know the toyos are a pound lighter also correct? I’m also fully aware that a drag radials will perform better at a drag strip than a street tire. Seems you need to get your facts straight before you correct someone and give someone bad information.


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I’m talking about the street here, not the track. I am thinking about real world situations; warm up times, road debris etc. There are a lot of factors. I just never gained much from the 888s. I had them on a 540whp Mustang and they just didn’t give me that edge I thought they would. I gave up wet traction, gained a lot of noise, and their performance wasn’t impressive without them being intentionally warmed up. I don’t want to do a burn out before I pulled out hard.

This is JMO, of course. I think what happens is that people talk these tires up (ANY tire), then, when you finally get them, they can’t handle 600whp + as well as what we were expecting. The night and day difference comes in the way of DRs.

These extreme performance tires are very soft. Coupled with the fact that you have 600hp+ and a car that can do 200mph or close to that, it’s not a safe condition for a patched tire. If you don’t drive high speeds, it might be ok, but I am not an expert on the topic.

I have owned 888s, P4s, 555Rs, PS2s, MT Street ETs, P zeros, and cars ranging from 300whp to 1,000whp. I have come to the conclusion that streets just plain suck for high hp. From 500whp on up, most tires start to lose their ability to hook on the street. Just to many factors killing performance.
 

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Sorry, I should have been clear. I am only referring to the street. OP was only talking about going from 295 to 305, and I am pretty sure that change isn’t going to make the sidewall a relevant argument. If you went to a DR or slick and a 245-275, absolutely.

For Xcross and general road tracks, yes, 888s are really good.

A majority of drivers really only push their cars in straight lines on the road and a bit in the turns. Their needs are different than the more serious “drivers”. OP wasn’t really clear, so I think we all kind of made assumptions as to what his/her needs are.

If it’s a DD like I assumed, it’s hard to beat the Michelins. If its not and you want aggressive, 888s are better.
I didnt assume street or track. He asked for experiences from a 295 vs 305. Michelins at stock power levels sucked. I couldnt imagine now, my r888rs obviously wont hold all my power but are much better. Never had an issue in the rain.
 

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I’m talking about the street here, not the track. I am thinking about real world situations; warm up times, road debris etc. There are a lot of factors. I just never gained much from the 888s. I had them on a 540whp Mustang and they just didn’t give me that edge I thought they would. I gave up wet traction, gained a lot of noise, and their performance wasn’t impressive without them being intentionally warmed up. I don’t want to do a burn out before I pulled out hard.

This is JMO, of course. I think what happens is that people talk these tires up (ANY tire), then, when you finally get them, they can’t handle 600whp + as well as what we were expecting. The night and day difference comes in the way of DRs.

These extreme performance tires are very soft. Coupled with the fact that you have 600hp+ and a car that can do 200mph or close to that, it’s not a safe condition for a patched tire. If you don’t drive high speeds, it might be ok, but I am not an expert on the topic.

I have owned 888s, P4s, 555Rs, PS2s, MT Street ETs, P zeros, and cars ranging from 300whp to 1,000whp. I have come to the conclusion that streets just plain suck for high hp. From 500whp on up, most tires start to lose their ability to hook on the street. Just to many factors killing performance.
I agree DR's are when traction really changes, I wouldnt patch or plug any of my tires and no street tires really handle much power.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
If you DD the car why waste money to go larger if grip was not a problem? Driving on the street leave it stock and go with a good solid tire that works for you. R888R I have on my wagon and they do hum and are loud. Had Bridgestone pole position prior and Michelin prior to that, all stock sizes. Any of the performance tires are good depending on what the application is. Based on daily driving, you would be best served with a 200+ treadwear rating with solid wet weather capabilities with the stock size. Going larger is great for more rubber meeting the road (always a plus) but your application does not really require it. Unless of course you like the look of a larger tire and cost is not an issue. If you are not tracking the car, plug the tire and run it until it is bald.
The difference in the set is only about $50 so the cost is pretty much irrelevant as i was quoted way higher by the dealers then I was quoted at discount tire. I was just looking for a way to get a little more performance out of it, going with the Sport 4S and the half an inch wider tire might allow me to do that. I do make some high speed runs sometimes going to 160MPH when there are no other vehicles and on certain open roads. I often accelerate from 100-120mph (which is hard to avoid if you put your foot to the floor for more then a few seconds) and i wanted to be as safe as possible while still enjoying what this car has to offer (which is why i dont prefer to plug the tire). I just wanted to make sure there wasnt any drawbacks going slightly wider. i dont really push the car too much around turns, as i like to be relatively "safe" while driving
 

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I’m talking about the street here, not the track. I am thinking about real world situations; warm up times, road debris etc. There are a lot of factors. I just never gained much from the 888s. I had them on a 540whp Mustang and they just didn’t give me that edge I thought they would. I gave up wet traction, gained a lot of noise, and their performance wasn’t impressive without them being intentionally warmed up. I don’t want to do a burn out before I pulled out hard.

This is JMO, of course. I think what happens is that people talk these tires up (ANY tire), then, when you finally get them, they can’t handle 600whp + as well as what we were expecting. The night and day difference comes in the way of DRs.

These extreme performance tires are very soft. Coupled with the fact that you have 600hp+ and a car that can do 200mph or close to that, it’s not a safe condition for a patched tire. If you don’t drive high speeds, it might be ok, but I am not an expert on the topic.

I have owned 888s, P4s, 555Rs, PS2s, MT Street ETs, P zeros, and cars ranging from 300whp to 1,000whp. I have come to the conclusion that streets just plain suck for high hp. From 500whp on up, most tires start to lose their ability to hook on the street. Just to many factors killing performance.
I agree with most of what you said. Currently I run the 888R's for a general purpose tire for HPDE and test days, dry and wet. They can be tough to drive in the wet, but overall for the price they can't be beat. (Full disclosure I get support from TOYO).

Having said that most street tires are designed as all purpose with a specialty, hence performance tires. The manufacturers have done a great job marketing their respective products and at the end of the day, DD on *ANY* of the standard brands is a personal choice that some make based on facts and based on marketing.


All are good and the magazines that test them do so in a *track* environment and post results from lowest performer to highest performer. All of it is subjective (to me anyway) and people buy into you need XXX tire as that is the hot setup. I say fuck that and drive what you like and are comfortable with and what you can afford. The magazine guys talk in track terms and this translates to the street but not 100%, as street driving is different than track driving. Most people buy in based on what they read and will never push the tire that hard when driving on the street. As you get to the track, drag, road course, autox this is when the tire tests have some merit. The testing guys always talk in terms of track times and grip which to me is BS becuause that is not the sole function of the tire.

The street consumer wants the following: good performance wet and dry, longevity of tread, and cost.

In a previous post I stated that most average Joe's (or insert gender neutral pronoun) can not tell the difference on most of these brand of tires as they are so close in performance (street driving). Luckily I have had the opportunity to test many tire brands, both performance and R compounds (and slicks) at the track and the difference is amazing given the right set of variables which is car, weight, temp, humidity, dry, wet, and so on. I was surprised by some tires (Hancook Ventus) and disappointed by others which I won't name. Again this is for specific track events for sprints and endurance.

Tires are always a great topic, one that I really enjoy.

Moral of the story? Define the application and purchase which product is best for you at your price point. Take tie reviews with a grain of salt.
 

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After a bunch of research, I went with the Toyo R888R's in stock tire sizes. The rears are definitely wider than stock on the stock rims, mine bulge out a bit where they didn't before. Fronts seem closer to stock width. Performance difference is huge compared to the Super Sports. My V3 is unmodified currently and the car rarely breaks loose anymore. It does make it a bit less fun to drive, haha, at least until I start modding it. I feel I can trust the car more, it always seemed to be getting loose everytime I put the pedal down. Not anymore.

Since OP mentions replacing the rears but not the fronts, I do not recommend this with the R888Rs. I ordered the tires from 2 different places since the fronts were hard to find in stock size. Got the rears cheaper than the fronts. They came in first, and I had them put on first. Drove the freeway a bit and had a few scary encounters where I went WOT and it felt like the front of the car would waggle. I'm probably doing a poor job describing it, but it was like the rear was gripping, accelerating the car faster than the front Super Sports with 12k miles could handle. They had plenty of tread left, maybe there was something else going on. When the front R888Rs came in I had them installed and no more problems. I doubt the 4S would give OP as much trouble, just be careful until you know how the car will handle. One excursion caught me off guard while passing a car and nearly caused an accident. Glad to have the Super Sports gone. Haven't driven in anything but light rain so can't speak to how they handle, but most reviews from vette forums and others indicate they handle fine as long as you don't drive like a dumbass. I doubt they handle as well as the 4S in the wet, but I don't drive aggressively in the rain so not a problem. Bought the tires for street use only, though I may take it to the track at some point.
 

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After a bunch of research, I went with the Toyo R888R's in stock tire sizes. The rears are definitely wider than stock on the stock rims, mine bulge out a bit where they didn't before. Fronts seem closer to stock width. Performance difference is huge compared to the Super Sports. My V3 is unmodified currently and the car rarely breaks loose anymore. It does make it a bit less fun to drive, haha, at least until I start modding it. I feel I can trust the car more, it always seemed to be getting loose everytime I put the pedal down. Not anymore.

Since OP mentions replacing the rears but not the fronts, I do not recommend this with the R888Rs. I ordered the tires from 2 different places since the fronts were hard to find in stock size. Got the rears cheaper than the fronts. They came in first, and I had them put on first. Drove the freeway a bit and had a few scary encounters where I went WOT and it felt like the front of the car would waggle. I'm probably doing a poor job describing it, but it was like the rear was gripping, accelerating the car faster than the front Super Sports with 12k miles could handle. They had plenty of tread left, maybe there was something else going on. When the front R888Rs came in I had them installed and no more problems. I doubt the 4S would give OP as much trouble, just be careful until you know how the car will handle. One excursion caught me off guard while passing a car and nearly caused an accident. Glad to have the Super Sports gone. Haven't driven in anything but light rain so can't speak to how they handle, but most reviews from vette forums and others indicate they handle fine as long as you don't drive like a dumbass. I doubt they handle as well as the 4S in the wet, but I don't drive aggressively in the rain so not a problem. Bought the tires for street use only, though I may take it to the track at some point.
Wow that sucks to hear. I never had that problem with the stock fronts and r888r rears.


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After a bunch of research, I went with the Toyo R888R's in stock tire sizes. The rears are definitely wider than stock on the stock rims, mine bulge out a bit where they didn't before. Fronts seem closer to stock width. Performance difference is huge compared to the Super Sports. My V3 is unmodified currently and the car rarely breaks loose anymore. It does make it a bit less fun to drive, haha, at least until I start modding it. I feel I can trust the car more, it always seemed to be getting loose everytime I put the pedal down. Not anymore.

Since OP mentions replacing the rears but not the fronts, I do not recommend this with the R888Rs. I ordered the tires from 2 different places since the fronts were hard to find in stock size. Got the rears cheaper than the fronts. They came in first, and I had them put on first. Drove the freeway a bit and had a few scary encounters where I went WOT and it felt like the front of the car would waggle. I'm probably doing a poor job describing it, but it was like the rear was gripping, accelerating the car faster than the front Super Sports with 12k miles could handle. They had plenty of tread left, maybe there was something else going on. When the front R888Rs came in I had them installed and no more problems. I doubt the 4S would give OP as much trouble, just be careful until you know how the car will handle. One excursion caught me off guard while passing a car and nearly caused an accident. Glad to have the Super Sports gone. Haven't driven in anything but light rain so can't speak to how they handle, but most reviews from vette forums and others indicate they handle fine as long as you don't drive like a dumbass. I doubt they handle as well as the 4S in the wet, but I don't drive aggressively in the rain so not a problem. Bought the tires for street use only, though I may take it to the track at some point.
Good Choice they are loud but work well. I had a write up somewhere on them. This is what they don't like.: Cold, debris such as sand, pine needle, leaves, add moisture to that and be careful. Make sure they come up to temp before pushing them. STanding water they will hydroplane, when on trak I am always perpendicular to the standing water when going through it. Rain is not a problem, just don't drive like a douche and you will be fine.

Enjoy.
 
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