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2011 CTS-V Coupe with a blue wrap. Cam, smaller pulley, larger injectors, methanol injection.
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
At the end of this month, I'm trading a friend of mine my supercharger for a newly refurbished Kong 2650. Right now my mods are 1 7/8 headers, BTR cam kit, Fic 1000's, new plugs, Solid isolator, reinforced brick, new belt, Y pipe, plug wires, dual nozzle methanol kit. The Kong comes with a 2.35 upper pulley. I still have the stock lower pulley, but a friend of mine told me I would be making more power than I was looking for. I currently make 603/ 577 to the wheels. I'm only looking to make around 650-700 rwhp. I was just going to buy a 2.38 upper pulley and be happy with whatever that made. I feel like it should put me about 14-15 psi. The pulley kit is 395.00. I called the friend of mine to ask him about installing it for me. That's when he said he was trading for something that has a newly refurbished kong 2650. I know it's more than I need for my power goals, but seems like too good a deal to pass up. Should I put a larger pulley on the Kong? I'm not sure how much boost the 2.35 pulley will make, but I do feel it's going to be more than I need. I'm on stock fuel pump as far as I'm concerned, although I bought the car with a few mods already done to it. Thanks for any helpful advice.
Before anyone asks, no I didn't special order the flux capacitor upgrade, but I do run the RedLine hydrogen blinker fluid.
 

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+1


The Kong will probably give you 20psi and a lot of heat. If you do it, pulley down to a 3.0 / 8.6 for stock heads.

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I don’t think you can get a pulley as small as 2.35 on the 2650 due to the front bearing. Are you sure this isn’t just a kong ported 1.9L blower with a 2.35 pulley.
 

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2011 CTS-V Coupe with a blue wrap. Cam, smaller pulley, larger injectors, methanol injection.
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
The blower is inefficient for that power goal.

Let me know if you need or want an explanation.


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I'm not opposed to making more power. I knew I wasn't going to buy a 2650 for some time though. I'm getting it at a good price so I thought I'd go ahead and get it. I didn't know that it was out of it's efficiency range at 650-700 rwhp. I've read a lot of your posts on boost, psi, volume and a lot of it goes over my head. I do have a college edumacation and I own my own business but none of it has to do with volumetric efficiency. I'm pretty sure I made that phrase up........lol
If I can redo my fuel pump set up and get it in to its efficiency range then I will do that. However, I feel I'll have to rebuild the bottom end and then replace my heads if I do that........ughhhhhh

Random, that's what I was planning on doing. I was going to buy a 3.0 upper pulley. I didn't know I was going to create more heat. I thought that's why they were so good. I thought they created less heat and cooler iat's. Apparently, Mr. Ringo is not an educated man.

MeanMike, that's what I was told was on it. I don't know because I haven't seen it. The guy selling it to me doesn't have it yet so maybe he misunderstood what size pulley it came with.

Thanks for your help, Jay
 

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More heat not from the blower - from the extra air being shoved through an inefficient head and cam setup.

In other words, to justify the Kong you really want better heads and a bigger cam. Otherwise you're better off with a properly sorted 1.9 L.

The Kong 2650 has more massive rotors and requires more HP to drive it, so the benefit is lost when you're using under-sized heads and cam.

It's like using a firetruck to push water through your faucet to fill up a pan for cooking. It's a bit of overkill. :D

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
To quote the great russian Tedd KGB....... It hurts doesn't it? All your hopes and dreams down the toilet.


I was looking forward to getting one, but sounds like it would hurt me more than help me. Thanks guys.
 

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My point is that the 2650 requires more power to drive it, I am guessing, and it’s only a guess, probably 30 hp and more than a 1900.

He will have a lot of Hendra, but I would suggest you hesitate on pumping up the boost past 17 or 18 psi on a stock bottom end, or stack cubic inches for that matter.


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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
My car feels great the way it is right now. I'm at 603 now. I don want to change my upper pulley to a 2.38 and give me about 3-4 more psi. That should put me close to 635-650 and 14-15 psi. Honestly, that's enough horsepower for me with this car. It's a blast to drive and I love the looks of it. I have a '91 supra that makes over 700 hp if I feel I need to drive something with a little more hp and less airconditioning..........lol
 

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My car feels great the way it is right now. I'm at 603 now. I don want to change my upper pulley to a 2.38 and give me about 3-4 more psi. That should put me close to 635-650 and 14-15 psi. Honestly, that's enough horsepower for me with this car. It's a blast to drive and I love the looks of it. I have a '91 supra that makes over 700 hp if I feel I need to drive something with a little more hp and less airconditioning..........lol
Please read Random's explanation, which also ties into Karch's reply:

More heat not from the blower - from the extra air being shoved through an inefficient head and cam setup.

In other words, to justify the Kong you really want better heads and a bigger cam. Otherwise you're better off with a properly sorted 1.9 L.

The Kong 2650 has more massive rotors and requires more HP to drive it, so the benefit is lost when you're using under-sized heads and cam. This ties into Karch's posts.

-and I am going to write this one down Jesse-..lol

It's like using a firetruck to push water through your faucet to fill up a pan for cooking. It's a bit of overkill. :D

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Cam and heads should be next, but. . .

If you decide to begin by simply changing pulleys, please remember
to upgrade your mass flow recovery system.

Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I do have a larger cam already, but I am on stock heads afaik. The car had minor upgrades when I bought it. It already had a reinforced brick and smaller upper pulley.

I'll have to check into the mass flow recovery system. First time I've heard about it. Thanks for your help.
 

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A mass flow recovery system, is simply a system that serves to cool the air that has been heated from using something such as a blower to force air into an engine.

Some of the components used to comprise the system would be an intercooler or an ice tank, etc.

Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Will the larger intercooler and methanol injection be enough cooling for the 2650? Is the 2650 overkill and useless at my current power goals of 650-700? Thanks.
 

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Will the larger intercooler and methanol injection be enough cooling for the 2650? Is the 2650 overkill and useless at my current power goals of 650-700? Thanks.
Yes, you do not require the 2650 blower to make 650 - 700 HP.
In fact, as both Random and Karch pointed out that it would likely hurt your performance.

You can easily make 660 HP with these engines and the car will retain good street manners.

-you wrote-
"I do have a larger cam already, but I am on stock heads afaik."
What are the valve events for the cam you have now?

You can make your HP goal with a mild cam and some well ported heads.

Karch who replied to your post represents WCCH Cylinder Heads.
This firm ports LSA Heads which I have seen make as high as 750 HP.

Much more than that becomes more difficult, because now you asking
a roots style blower to achieve greater than 100% cylinder fill.

As always, the ultimate HP Achieved will depend greatly on the tuner.
But 660 is pretty easy to make. . .

Cheers
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
OK guys. Thanks for the answers. I will definitely stay with the stock supercharger and stay with my current goals of 650. I've already went down this road with my supra and I love the way the caddie cranks and runs without having the race car feel. I'm keeping this one a streetcar with a little bite to it.
 

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No longer selling or representing wcch. No reason other than I just don’t want to deal with state tax board and some people who send me 20+ PM’s about heads and other things only to buy from another vendor because that vendor gave him a $100 discount on a pair of heads if he bought more stuff with him.

That being said, I have a customer running a ported blower, cam, and WCCH stage 2.5 heads and trapping over 145 with a 9.6x ET. That is more than 750 rwhp I believe.

He’s running close to a 4:1 pulley ratio, and all the others fun supporting stuff.

And of course, it’s a sedan :).


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