[Viral_V]

Ok this is starting to drive me crazy. Noticed last week the car wasn’t running right found out the hx pump went out. Checked the fuse it was blown and locked up the Pump. Ordered another pump threw in another fuse ran great for two days and boom went out again. Anybody else had this problem?

 

[Karch]

A blown fuse is not going to lock up a pump. A locked up pump could blow a fuse.


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[Viral_V]

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[/QUOTE]

A blown fuse is not going to lock up a pump. A locked up pump could blow a fuse.

Ok good to know… I only said that because the pump did not work after changing the fuse. Brought a brand new pump and it came on no problem. 2 days later the brand new pump is out and keep blowing the fuses.

 

[MrSurly]

The scenario was likely the following: 1, pump motor bearings went bad, caused a drag on the motor, motor overheated, pulled high current (but not enough to blow the fuse) for a while and severely melted the wiring.
2. Eventually the motor locked up due to bearing failure; at this point the amps became extreme enough to blow the fuse.
3. Fuse replaced... cooled motor runs for a short time but of course, later locks up, cooks the wires some more, then blows the fuse.
4. Fuse replaced (likely with higher-rated fuse) and cycle repeats: heat/cook wires/lockup/blow fuse.
5. pump motor gets replaced; wires not addressed
6. pump is getting low voltage due to roasted wires/ bad connections/melted relay contacts/ corroded connections
7. toasted wires and relay overheat again, blowing fuse.

guess what step 8 is .

 

[Karch]

The scenario was likely the following: 1, pump motor bearings went bad, caused a drag on the motor, motor overheated, pulled high current (but not enough to blow the fuse) for a while and severely melted the wiring.
2. Eventually the motor locked up due to bearing failure; at this point the amps became extreme enough to blow the fuse.
3. Fuse replaced... cooled motor runs for a short time but of course, later locks up, cooks the wires some more, then blows the fuse.
4. Fuse replaced (likely with higher-rated fuse) and cycle repeats: heat/cook wires/lockup/blow fuse.
5. pump motor gets replaced; wires not addressed
6. pump is getting low voltage due to roasted wires/ bad connections/melted relay contacts/ corroded connections
7. toasted wires and relay overheat again, blowing fuse.

guess what step 8 is .

Install a new cam and ported heads?


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[Blown376]

Install a new cam and ported heads?


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Nope, widebody kit.

 

[iviaillet]

Make sure the pump connector doesn’t have any corrosion or loose terminals. If you can manage to keep the fuse from blowing, try doing a voltage drop test from the fuse to the positive terminal on the pump, you’ll need t-pins to keep the circuit closed. There should be little to no voltage. Make sure it has a good ground by measuring the negative terminal on the pump connector to the negative battery terminal, there should be roughly 0.1ohms. Worse case scenario there could be an exposed wire that shorts out during a certain situation like a bad bump or up a steep hill.

 

[Viral_V]

The scenario was likely the following: 1, pump motor bearings went bad, caused a drag on the motor, motor overheated, pulled high current (but not enough to blow the fuse) for a while and severely melted the wiring.
2. Eventually the motor locked up due to bearing failure; at this point the amps became extreme enough to blow the fuse.
3. Fuse replaced... cooled motor runs for a short time but of course, later locks up, cooks the wires some more, then blows the fuse.
4. Fuse replaced (likely with higher-rated fuse) and cycle repeats: heat/cook wires/lockup/blow fuse.
5. pump motor gets replaced; wires not addressed
6. pump is getting low voltage due to roasted wires/ bad connections/melted relay contacts/ corroded connections
7. toasted wires and relay overheat again, blowing fuse.

guess what step 8 is .


Wassup MrSurly thanks for the info but I should have gave more info the first pump your referring to is also brand new. Motor was pulled and upgraded all the goodies along with the Pump brand spanking new so u still think the bearings went bad or can we exclude that one out the scenario.

 

[iviaillet]

The scenario was likely the following: 1, pump motor bearings went bad, caused a drag on the motor, motor overheated, pulled high current (but not enough to blow the fuse) for a while and severely melted the wiring.
2. Eventually the motor locked up due to bearing failure; at this point the amps became extreme enough to blow the fuse.
3. Fuse replaced... cooled motor runs for a short time but of course, later locks up, cooks the wires some more, then blows the fuse.
4. Fuse replaced (likely with higher-rated fuse) and cycle repeats: heat/cook wires/lockup/blow fuse.
5. pump motor gets replaced; wires not addressed
6. pump is getting low voltage due to roasted wires/ bad connections/melted relay contacts/ corroded connections
7. toasted wires and relay overheat again, blowing fuse.

guess what step 8 is .

Is it possible to burn the insulation off the wires with the proper rated fuse?

 

[MrSurly]

Doesn't really matter that it was new if it is mechanically locked up (your verbiage) then it has to be replaced. If it's locked up it will naturally draw high amps. Fix the lock up, the high draw should go away. But the continued blowing of fuses indicates an installation issue OR a failure of components OR component selection for the job. What amperage rating fuse is being used? What wire gauge is being used? What is the rated amp (current) draw of the motor? Are you using a relay to switch the pump, or trying to direct-switch it via a controller? Something doesn't "match"... or else there is a wire pinched/cut/shorted somewhere.

The good news is that it's just metal, we can out-think it.

 

[MrSurly]

Is it possible to burn the insulation off the wires with the proper rated fuse?

YES!
If the wire size is marginal for the fuse rating and a small overcurrent exists, it is very possible to melt fuse-protected wiring without popping the fuse.

 

[RobF300]

dumb question but are you sure the fuse is blown this time and its not just air locked

 

[iviaillet]

YES!
If the wire size is marginal for the fuse rating and a small overcurrent exists, it is very possible to melt fuse-protected wiring without popping the fuse.

Usually the manufacturer uses a certain gauge wire that’s rated for a specific amperage, then they select the right fuse to not let that wire go over that amperage, if the circuit has a “small overcurrent” the fuse will blow. The keyword in that is usually. I assume Cadillac selected the proper gauge wire for the 10A(?) fuse they have on the circuit, but like you said that doesn’t prevent someone from replacing it with a higher amperage fuse. I’m under the impression he has all original equipment.

dumb question but are you sure the fuse is blown this time and its not just air locked

That’s a great question, seems more likely than intermittently popping a fuse

 

[Viral_V]

Doesn't really matter that it was new if it is mechanically locked up (your verbiage) then it has to be replaced. If it's locked up it will naturally draw high amps. Fix the lock up, the high draw should go away. But the continued blowing of fuses indicates an installation issue OR a failure of components OR component selection for the job. What amperage rating fuse is being used? What wire gauge is being used? What is the rated amp (current) draw of the motor? Are you using a relay to switch the pump, or trying to direct-switch it via a controller? Something doesn't "match"... or else there is a wire pinched/cut/shorted somewhere.

The good news is that it's just metal, we can out-think it.

It’s a ZZP Bosch upgraded pump, plug and play, oem system nothing fancy.

 

[MrSurly]

I’m under the impression he has all original equipment.

This assumption is apparently flawed.

 

[MrSurly]

What is they current draw of the Bosch pump?
What was the current rating of the OE pump?
If it is an “upgrade” (meaning that it performs at a higher level than the original) then it likely draws more current. The OE wiring and fuse will have been sized for the OE selected pump.
This is likely the reason for the trouble your are having.
The good news is that a fairly simple fix will be to add a relay located near the pump location and use the original pump circuit to simply trigger the relay, That way the original circuit is not overloaded.

The ZZP (as far as I have found in a quick search) may pull around five amps. That shouldn’t be the issue but none the less, fuses are blowing. It’s pretty simple at this point, you’re going to have to inspect the wiring until you locate the short or the damage.
You did say that the engine was recently pulled, right? Lots of opportunity for wires to get molested. Someone will need to physically examine the wiring. Can’t see it from
the internet.

 

[Viral_V]

dumb question but are you sure the fuse is blown this time and its not just air locked

Yessir I’m sure it actually blew a couple trying to troubleshoot. I’ve checked grounds, tried to make sure it wasn’t pinching. But When I turned the key to see if the pump was on it wasn’t so I turned it off pulled the fuse and it’ll be blown.

What is they current draw of the Bosch pump?
What was the current rating of the OE pump?
If it is an “upgrade” (meaning that it performs at a higher level than the original) then it likely draws more current. The OE wiring and fuse will have been sized for the OE selected pump.
This is likely the reason for the trouble your are having.
The good news is that a fairly simple fix will be to add a relay located near the pump location and use the original pump circuit to simply trigger the relay, That way the original circuit is not overloaded.

The ZZP (as far as I have found in a quick search) may pull around five amps. That shouldn’t be the issue but none the less, fuses are blowing. It’s pretty simple at this point, you’re going to have to inspect the wiring until you locate the short or the damage.
You did say that the engine was recently pulled, right? Lots of opportunity for wires to get molested. Someone will need to physically examine the wiring. Can’t see it from
the internet.

Yes that’s what I figured only checked what I was able to reach I’ll do some more digging to see what I find thanks a lot!

 

[Sudderth]

Unplug the pump, replace the fuse. Then, start car and see if the fuse blows. If it does you isolated it to a short in the wiring and not the upgraded pump. Make Sure your fuse box is seated properly.

 

[PGA2B]

You could run jumper wires from the fuse box that have a positive and negative lead into the pump. Make sure you have a fuse inline the same as the stock fuse. Then jump the pump and see if it runs. That way you could eliminate a melted or grounded wire. If it runs that way and doesn't blow a fuse you need to run new wiring to the pump. If the wires have gotten hot due to excessive current draw and melted the insulation it may not be a dead short to pop a fuse with no load. I've seen that back in my car audio days where a wire isn't dead shorted but the insulation is melted enough for the wires to arc under load.

 

[Sudderth]

PGA2B has it right. If that is the case wire around the problem. I had a new Mustang that the dealer wired around the temperature gauge to get it to work. Somewhere in the harness it was shorted so the gauge read hot nut not overly hot. Wiring around the problem resolved the situation. Since the fuse box is so close it should be easy to resolve.