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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok so back in January some of y’all may remember I had some issues with my brakes after changing my rotors and pads from R1. I had left the lines open and air had gotten into the abs module, and I went through hell and back trying to solve that problem. Buying expensive tools and a scanner to do the ABS bleed and bleeding the MC as well. I was sure I finally solved this issue! Now I’m not so sure. I drove my wife’s 2017 Camaro the other day and WOW! Her brakes were on point. She has the FIFTY anniversary Camaro RS with Brembos up front only. I can’t ever remember any of my cars with better brakes. I don’t drive my V too much but the last time I did I certainly don’t remember the brakes being that good. So today I drove them both. Again her brakes were on point! My V certainly felt good, but not nearly as good as hers. I would think with Brembos all the way around my V should work as good if not better. Common sense right? I’m thinking I am missing something but don’t know what. Or maybe that’s just the setup I have. I dunno. I have drilled geomet rotors and oep pads.
I wanted to get you guys take on why I’m feeling like my brakes should be better than they are? Or again, maybe I’m wrong and that’s the way these are. Just rackin my brain trying to figure this one out.

Kenny
 

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I’m running r1 drilled and slotted rotors and oem brembo pads, stops on a dime. Are you running the rubber hoses still? If so maybe consider the goodridge stainless lines. Makes a world a difference
 

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I would bet the Caddy weighs significantly more than the Camaro. If both cars have identical brakes, the lighter car is going to stop better than the heavier one. Even if the lighter car doesn't have as good brakes, it can still stop better. It's all about the mass you're trying to slow down.
 

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Yeah you might need to define "on point". If you mean "barely touch the pedal and the car slows down a lot", that can be done with shitty brakes with a lot of booster.

Does your pad compound require some heat before the mu picks up? Great brakes can feel lame when they're cold.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Yeah you might need to define "on point". If you mean "barely touch the pedal and the car slows down a lot", that can be done with shitty brakes with a lot of booster.

Does your pad compound require some heat before the mu picks up? Great brakes can feel lame when they're cold.
Yes definitely means when you barely touch the brakes it slows down a lot!
Let’s just say when I drive the Camaro I’m taken back and get that WOW factor! Like holy shit those are good brakes! Very noticeable difference. I‘Love Love Love You! Try and find that link where I posted about the Mbleeding and how I screwed up letting the whole MC bleed out of brake fluid. I thought I had figured things out, but maybe I missed a step that a brake guy can pin point.
Here it is. If someone has time maybe they can read over this and see what I might have missed.

 

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Right, that's kind of my point. Just because it "feels better" when you first touch the pedal doesn't always mean the brakes are better at stopping the car. Unboosted race brakes require very high pedal force, but to most people that's not desirable. At some point it becomes a marketing thing, like how the fuel needle goes waaaay past full and stays there for the first quarter of the tank.

Assuming your larger V brakes are working properly, It's pretty much a sure thing that they are better at stopping a 2 ton sedan over and over. Higher pedal effort is one thing, a spongy pedal is another. Does it feel like there is still air in the lines?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Right, that's kind of my point. Just because it "feels better" when you first touch the pedal doesn't always mean the brakes are better at stopping the car. Unboosted race brakes require very high pedal force, but to most people that's not desirable. At some point it becomes a marketing thing, like how the fuel needle goes waaaay past full and stays there for the first quarter of the tank.

Assuming your larger V brakes are working properly, It's pretty much a sure thing that they are better at stopping a 2 ton sedan over and over. Higher pedal effort is one thing, a spongy pedal is another. Does it feel like there is still air in the lines?
[/QUOTE
No it don’t feel like any air is in there. I’d say absolutely not on that end. I do get your point on the “feels better’. That makes sense more than anything my non mechanic ass can come up with. I am however going to go ahead and get those steel braided lines asap. As a matter of fact(and my wife ain’t gonna be too happy about it) I ordered them earlier. I had always wanted to mod those anyway. Your input is very much appreciated
 

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Yes definitely means when you barely touch the brakes it slows down a lot!
That's good for a car that will be driven by someone who doesn't know what they're doing, that can rely on ABS knowing what to do. My wife's Evoque is like this. Brakes engage very high on the pedal. That's the exact opposite of what you want for real performance driving. You want the brakes to be proportionally modulated so that the harder you press the harder they work. Working hard the moment you press them is actually not so good.

I would say there's something wrong with the Crapmaro's brakes, not the V's.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
That's good for a car that will be driven by someone who doesn't know what they're doing, that can rely on ABS knowing what to do. My wife's Evoque is like this. Brakes engage very high on the pedal. That's the exact opposite of what you want for real performance driving. You want the brakes to be proportionally modulated so that the harder you press the harder they work. Working hard the moment you press them is actually not so good.

I would say there's something wrong with the Crapmaro's brakes, not the V's.
Fair enough! Makes total sense now. I’m convinced!
 

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I dislike the stock V brakes for the reason you're describing. Sucks when you're muscle memory in a quick stop is for say a Honda Accord that will put you into the dashboard with 1/2 the pedal force and nearly dust free ceramic pads. When some kid steps out into the street or whatever, I want them to grab. Only time I thought they felt right was after some real hard braking.

Supposedly the charger/challengers srts have the same brakes, I have wondered if they have the same feel. And I've wondered if there's a way to change the pedal feel on our cars.

Pretty sure the BMW M cars have great biting brakes, but hey what do they know about track performance.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I dislike the stock V brakes for the reason you're describing. Sucks when you're muscle memory in a quick stop is for say a Honda Accord that will put you into the dashboard with 1/2 the pedal force and nearly dust free ceramic pads. When some kid steps out into the street or whatever, I want them to grab. Only time I thought they felt right was after some real hard braking.

Supposedly the charger/challengers srts have the same brakes, I have wondered if they have the same feel. And I've wondered if there's a way to change the pedal feel on our cars.

Pretty sure the BMW M cars have great biting brakes, but hey what do they know about track performance.
I have to be honest and say I agree with you. I’d actually prefer the hard bite, and liked the way her Camaros brakes worked. But I’m ok with what RocketSled said as well, and completely understand the whole concept. However, since I don’t track my V, I’d just prefer the bite and quick stops. We all bought (Expensive)performance cars and should expect these Brembos to perform at their best for the vehicles we have.
So, it is what it is. Nothing is going to change my love for these Vs! I walk in my garage everyday and feel so damn lucky(blessed) to have such an awesome automobile sittin there! Truly grateful!
 

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I didn't like the Brembos on my V1 or my 03 Cobra but the V2 is worse than both. The Brembos on the 99 Cobra I had seemed to do work but that car weighed about 3300lbs.

Bet with ceramic pads you'd feel like Fred Flintstone stopping a V2. People hated the Brembos on Subaru STis so much that they made master cylinder braces to eliminate a little bit of flex that translated directly into less initial bite.

There has to be a way to increase brake booster pressure or something. Idgaf if I lose some pedal range on a road course I'll never be on.
 

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try Ford High Performance Brake Fluid. Dot 3 but has twice the boiling point of regular fluid. Not synthetic so it does not screw with the ABS. Had issues with my Corvette and it fixed the problem. You have to ask for it by name since the guys at the parts counter will sell you the regular brake fluid. It has the Red Label with the GT40 on the bottle. Really makes a difference on the pedal feel and you can brake hard without fade due to boiling fluid. Also, be sure to use the scanner to do the ABS bleed to get all the old fluid out of the system. Takes two rounds and four bottles of fluid. Bleed all four lines and then do the ABS. Then do the four lines and then the ABS again. I have a syringe to get the fluid out of the master cylinder so I can start with fresh fluid.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Right, that's kind of my point. Just because it "feels better" when you first touch the pedal doesn't always mean the brakes are better at stopping the car. Unboosted race brakes require very high pedal force, but to most people that's not desirable. At some point it becomes a marketing thing, like how the fuel needle goes waaaay past full and stays there for the first quarter of the tank.

Assuming your larger V brakes are working properly, It's pretty much a sure thing that they are better at stopping a 2 ton sedan over and over. Higher pedal effort is one thing, a spongy pedal is another. Does it feel like there is still air in the lines?
Looks like I accidentally screwed up my reply to this from SilveSurfer earlier. In case anyone missed it here’s what I replied.
No it don’t feel like any air is in there. I’d say absolutely not on that end. I do get your point on the “feels better’. That makes sense more than anything my non mechanic ass can come up with. I am however going to go ahead and get those steel braided lines asap. As a matter of fact(and my wife ain’t gonna be too happy about it) I ordered them earlier. I had always wanted to mod those anyway. Your input is very much appreciated
 

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FWIW, assuming solid engine vacuum (the booster is operational) and well seated pads, the biggest part of braking is actually the rotating mass of the wheels.

Lighter wheels will significantly improved braking function.

IMHO you should be bleeding your brake fluid every 2-3 years as it will soak up moisture and lose hydraulic effect (aka a soft pedal requiring more and more effort to apply brakes firmly).

Third most is a more aggressive pad! People use ceramics to keep their wheels clean, but this means less friction and less stopping force. OEM pads are quite good IMHO, but dust quite a bit.

The rotors themselves are basically the least important part of braking force. Pulsation? Sure, but not braking force.

So...
Less wheel mass
Clean fluid
Aggressive pads
Good booster / vacuum assistance
Rotors.

Something like that is my priority list.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk
 

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IMHO you should be bleeding your brake fluid every 2-3 years as it will soak up moisture and lose hydraulic effect (aka a soft pedal requiring more and more effort to apply brakes firmly).
Water is no more or less compressible than brake fluid. But water turns to vapor at a much lower temperature. So if your brakes work great the first time you stab them, and then not so good when you stab them again soon after, bleeding or purging the brake fluid is definitely a good idea. But if pedal firmness doesn't change as a function of how much you're abusing the brakes, contamination of the fluid is unlikely to be the source of the problem, IMO...
 

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Brake fluid is hygroscopic as in it has no water and therefore loves to absorb water (moisture) from the air. So, every two years you should change your brake fluid since it absorbs water and that is where the issue comes from when you do several hard braking and the pedal gets soft. Sources say it absorbs one to two percent a year. Also, the brake lines are drawn with copper sulfate to keep the tooling from wearing out. The copper comes out of the metal and into solution and that eats brake parts too... I know, too much information...

DOT 3 is first on the list and it is a poly glycol-based fluid. The minimum dry boiling point for DOT 3 fluid is 401-degrees Fahrenheit and it has a minimum wet boiling point of 284-degrees Fahrenheit. It has a tendency to absorb 1- to 2-percent of water in one year based on operating conditions and temperatures. The Ford High Performance Brake Fluid boils at 500 degrees.
 

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Ok so back in January some of y’all may remember I had some issues with my brakes after changing my rotors and pads from R1. I had left the lines open and air had gotten into the abs module, and I went through hell and back trying to solve that problem. Buying expensive tools and a scanner to do the ABS bleed and bleeding the MC as well. I was sure I finally solved this issue! Now I’m not so sure. I drove my wife’s 2017 Camaro the other day and WOW! Her brakes were on point. She has the FIFTY anniversary Camaro RS with Brembos up front only. I can’t ever remember any of my cars with better brakes. I don’t drive my V too much but the last time I did I certainly don’t remember the brakes being that good. So today I drove them both. Again her brakes were on point! My V certainly felt good, but not nearly as good as hers. I would think with Brembos all the way around my V should work as good if not better. Common sense right? I’m thinking I am missing something but don’t know what. Or maybe that’s just the setup I have. I dunno. I have drilled geomet rotors and oep pads.
I wanted to get you guys take on why I’m feeling like my brakes should be better than they are? Or again, maybe I’m wrong and that’s the way these are. Just rackin my brain trying to figure this one out.

Kenny
Ok so back in January some of y’all may remember I had some issues with my brakes after changing my rotors and pads from R1. I had left the lines open and air had gotten into the abs module, and I went through hell and back trying to solve that problem. Buying expensive tools and a scanner to do the ABS bleed and bleeding the MC as well. I was sure I finally solved this issue! Now I’m not so sure. I drove my wife’s 2017 Camaro the other day and WOW! Her brakes were on point. She has the FIFTY anniversary Camaro RS with Brembos up front only. I can’t ever remember any of my cars with better brakes. I don’t drive my V too much but the last time I did I certainly don’t remember the brakes being that good. So today I drove them both. Again her brakes were on point! My V certainly felt good, but not nearly as good as hers. I would think with Brembos all the way around my V should work as good if not better. Common sense right? I’m thinking I am missing something but don’t know what. Or maybe that’s just the setup I have. I dunno. I have drilled geomet rotors and oep pads.
I wanted to get you guys take on why I’m feeling like my brakes should be better than they are? Or again, maybe I’m wrong and that’s the way these are. Just rackin my brain trying to figure this one out.

Kenny
I always run the Brembo non drilled non slotted rotors and the semi metallic pads. This is what came on the car for a reason. Ceramic pads do not produce the dust the factory pads do but they do grab all the heat they can get super hot and transfer it into the caliper and the fluid. The semi metallics do not. The rotor metal composition is critical as well for grabbing a layer of pad material and infusing it into the rotor. That is that sticky sometimes squeaky sensation the factory brembo setup has. Ceramics and Chinese drilled and slotted rotor that sell for a discount don’t do this, they crack sometimes, they warp. I also suction bleed the brakes every time with sealed brand new dot4 fluid. I keep bleeding until new looking fluid comes out. I guarantee you Brembo rotors with Brembo semi metallic pads, properly bled, will be the dirtiest noisiest yet best functioning brakes your V will ever have.
 

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My tips.

Go out and bed the brakes again. Get up to 50-60 and go hard on the brakes right up to the point of engaging antilock. Let them cool between runs for a few minutes. Do this 5-7 times.
If they still don’t stiffen up, pull the pads and sand the brake material with 120 to get a new surface and then go bed them again.

if you still have problems, bleed them again. Pull at least a couple of ounces of fluid per corner and keep the master full. Once you get air in the system, if the brakes get really hot, air can migrate upstream in the system and you may think you pulled enough fluid in the bleed but may not have. Vacuum bleeding works best.
 

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Mean Mike summed it up well. If you need to be cool with slotted and drilled rotors that is fine. If you want to try the latest ceramic pads, then fine. But don't complain when they don't work like they should. That is because they won't work like they should. You put the factory parts back on it, do a thorough bleed, you will be back with what impressed me for 208,000 miles. Never again. The V was conceived as a performance car and Cadillac did a hell of a job putting it together.

You can go with the stainless lines, and they will quicken your brake application because there is no give. That can be lived with.

I have been through the performance crap on two different vehicles, but no V's. I was never happy with the performance of any of it EXCEPT the V's (2005 and 2010). I have carbon ceramic on my Z06. Wow.

The ONLY time I messed with rotors WITH RESULTS was when I took my third set of new stock rotors on my 85 suburban to a buddy of mine that ran a machine shop. The rotors kept warping. The factory rotors warped. Factory replacement 1 warped. Factory replacement 2 warped. I had him put slots in the brand new factory replacement 3 front rotors. They never warped again. And lest you think I was towing, not once did I tow with that truck. Lest you think the Queen has a lead foot, this is the same woman that put 200,000 miles on her next suburban without replacing any brakes. They did not need it. In 1988 there were no chinese performance parts available.

Old age can teach much if one is willing to sit and listen. I should not be giving lessons. However, this is one I have learned and earned the hard way.
 
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