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I'm looking at the new f90 m5 and the e63 amg/s versus the v3 and I'm really curious how fast current v3 owners think their cars are in real world applications. Can you compare the performance to other heavy hitters on the market such as the f10 m5/f90 m5/ hellcats? I'm beginning to wonder if the v3 is the correct step for me in the future since the new m5 seemingly blows a lot of cars out of the question. As current v3 owners, would you buy the v3 again or would you give a second glace at the German competitors?
 

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I'm looking at the new f90 m5 and the e63 amg/s versus the v3 and I'm really curious how fast current v3 owners think their cars are in real world applications. Can you compare the performance to other heavy hitters on the market such as the f10 m5/f90 m5/ hellcats? I'm beginning to wonder if the v3 is the correct step for me in the future since the new m5 seemingly blows a lot of cars out of the question. As current v3 owners, would you buy the v3 again or would you give a second glace at the German competitors?
Biggest deciding factor for me was $$ and being mod friendly. The m5 and e63 were more expensive and their lease programs didn’t come close to GM’s. Also m5 and e63 modding is pretty costly. Pretty much if I had m5 or e63 money I would’ve went for the e63 but I am very very happy with my V3. Mean as hell and demands respect.


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New F90 M5 has awd so it has that going for it. It also is definitely faster stock than a stock V3. The new M5 is 10's stock @ about 130 mph and is around 600whp before any tuning or mods.

Car and driver did a shootout of all the super sedans and said the V3 was the best drivers car (best handling and steering feel and most fun) but the M5 was the fastest.

https://www.boostaddict.com/content.php?9399-2018-Super-Sedan-Showdown-BMW-F90-M5-vs-Mercedes-AMG-W213-E63-S-vs-Cadillac-CTS-V-vs-Porsche-Panamera-Turbo
 

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I'm looking at the new f90 m5 and the e63 amg/s versus the v3 and I'm really curious how fast current v3 owners think their cars are in real world applications. Can you compare the performance to other heavy hitters on the market such as the f10 m5/f90 m5/ hellcats? I'm beginning to wonder if the v3 is the correct step for me in the future since the new m5 seemingly blows a lot of cars out of the question. As current v3 owners, would you buy the v3 again or would you give a second glace at the German competitors?
Not exactly apples/apples as you're looking at 2 brand new ground-floor-up redesign vehicles ('18 E63 & '18 M5), vs a car which has essentially been untouched (alpha platform and interior) since its introduction in 2014. However, Cadillac sells an '18 CTSV so comparison is unavoidable--run whatcha brung!

I'm sure the die-hard V3 apologists will adamantly disagree, but I feel both the new M5 and E63s are better cars in every objective measure. Progress/technology doesn't sleep, and the new Germans are proof positive. I think the V3 slapped around both previous embodiments of the M and AMG, but today's game is a different one. Both are miles faster than the V, will feel faster on the street (due to awd), will be faster at the track (again, awd consistency), and both have interiors that make the V look like a Chevy Aveo. About the only laurel that the V has left is its well sorted front end (chassis, steering feel, etc) and price tag. It will certainly be 30-40k less than the aforementioned--but you didn't mention pricing in your OP so I don't know if that's a consideration for you.
 

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Not exactly apples/apples as you're looking at 2 brand new ground-floor-up redesign vehicles ('18 E63 & '18 M5), vs a car which has essentially been untouched (alpha platform and interior) since its introduction in 2014. However, Cadillac sells an '18 CTSV so comparison is unavoidable--run whatcha brung!

I'm sure the die-hard V3 apologists will adamantly disagree, but I feel both the new M5 and E63s are better cars in every objective measure. Progress/technology doesn't sleep, and the new Germans are proof positive. I think the V3 slapped around both previous embodiments of the M and AMG, but today's game is a different one. Both are miles faster than the V, will feel faster on the street (due to awd), will be faster at the track (again, awd consistency), and both have interiors that make the V look like a Chevy Aveo. About the only laurel that the V has left is its well sorted front end (chassis, steering feel, etc) and price tag. It will certainly be 30-40k less than the aforementioned--but you didn't mention pricing in your OP so I don't know if that's a consideration for you.
Once tariffs are equal, will the German cars be competitive though? I agree they are better, but they are already dramatically priced higher as it is. If the 30% tariff that GM cars face in Germany were imposed on their cars in the USA, or alternately - if Germany lowered it's tariff's to the mere 2.5% that German cars have coming to the US, how would each fare?

On an absolute basis, I concur these new M and AMG cars have some serious advantages. But on a equalized basis, they are some 35-50% more expensive. I would absolutely EXPECT them to be better.
 

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Once tariffs are equal, will the German cars be competitive though? I agree they are better, but they are already dramatically priced higher as it is. If the 30% tariff that GM cars face in Germany were imposed on their cars in the USA, or alternately - if Germany lowered it's tariff's to the mere 2.5% that German cars have coming to the US, how would each fare?

On an absolute basis, I concur these new M and AMG cars have some serious advantages. But on a equalized basis, they are some 35-50% more expensive. I would absolutely EXPECT them to be better.
I doubt any of those tariffs will come to fruition, but if they did it would obviously advantage the American marques.

Although I will say, the people whom are buying a 150k liability which depreciates like a rock from inception are probably not living paycheck to paycheck. Thus, they will still desire the "best", price notwithstanding; and will pony up the extra 30-40k in additional mark-up if it came down to it.

The V3 is a quick car in stock form and the A8 does pretty well. I don't think any sedan in the 100K range can touch it.
RS7
Hellcat Charger
E63S
M5

All beg to differ.
 

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I doubt any of those tariffs will come to fruition, but if they did it would obviously advantage the American marques.

Although I will say, the people whom are buying a 150k liability which depreciates like a rock from inception are probably not living paycheck to paycheck. Thus, they will still desire the "best", price notwithstanding; and will pony up the extra 30-40k in additional mark-up if it came down to it.



RS7
Hellcat Charger
E63S
M5

All beg to differ.
MSRP

V3 $86k
RS7 $114k
Charger $66k
E63s $104k
M5 $102k

All 2018 models. Only one that would be a valid argument would be the Charger. Which they may be faster in a straight line but the V has more to offer.

Extra 30k-40k would definitely cut into your sales numbers. I don’t care how much money you have.


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RS7
Hellcat Charger
E63S
M5

All beg to differ.

RS7- Costs more and has less power

Hellcat Charger- will win a drag race but nothing else stock for stock, price is right though.

E63S- Little better performance for more money but not a ton more and if you equip beyond the starting price level a lot more $$

M5- More money but similar performance with AWD.

So the only car that doesn’t cost more that can compete is a Hellcat but the Hellcat can only compete in a drag race.

I think the V3 is a good car in the 90K range. Spend 30K more and you can get a better one.

All of the Germans will hit 120K+ nicely equipped.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Not exactly apples/apples as you're looking at 2 brand new ground-floor-up redesign vehicles ('18 E63 & '18 M5), vs a car which has essentially been untouched (alpha platform and interior) since its introduction in 2014. However, Cadillac sells an '18 CTSV so comparison is unavoidable--run whatcha brung!

I'm sure the die-hard V3 apologists will adamantly disagree, but I feel both the new M5 and E63s are better cars in every objective measure. Progress/technology doesn't sleep, and the new Germans are proof positive. I think the V3 slapped around both previous embodiments of the M and AMG, but today's game is a different one. Both are miles faster than the V, will feel faster on the street (due to awd), will be faster at the track (again, awd consistency), and both have interiors that make the V look like a Chevy Aveo. About the only laurel that the V has left is its well sorted front end (chassis, steering feel, etc) and price tag. It will certainly be 30-40k less than the aforementioned--but you didn't mention pricing in your OP so I don't know if that's a consideration for you.
Honestly, my v2 still has an extended cpo warranty until 2020. I will be in the market for the next car as the warranty gets closer to ending. I keep my cars stock and hence I was wondering what would take the cake as a faster/ overall better car from the factory. My biggest gripe about bmw is the 10 other variants ,300 options and LCI updates the m5 will get through it's generation. Price wise, I feel like the price difference between the cars will be warranted if one is significantly faster. I plan on getting whatever is next certified pre-owned and the m5/e63 will definitely be more expensive on the cpo market. If it is a lot faster, it would warrant the extra cost in my head. The looks of the v3 and my of bias towards the V line has me very indecisive. The v3 is arguably one of the meanest looking cars on the road and there is a hell of a lot of car for the price. My favorite thing about the v3 is how much comes standard without affecting the performance or overall feel of the car. I'll keep my eye on the good old interweb for roll races and more tests between these cars. I have sometime before making my choice. Thanks for all the replies, everyone definitely raised very good points to keep in mind!
 

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MSRP

V3 $86k
RS7 $114k
Charger $66k
E63s $104k
M5 $102k

All 2018 models. Only one that would be a valid argument would be the Charger. Which they may be faster in a straight line but the V has more to offer.

Extra 30k-40k would definitely cut into your sales numbers. I don’t care how much money you have.


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I'll give you the RS7 is a stretch price-wise but lets not split hairs over 2 and 4k, on the M5 and E63S, respectively. No one spending 100k on a sedan will have their mind changed by a few k. And just like we are all well aware the V doesn't sell for sticker, if you know where to look, neither do the Germans. You can get into them for around 4-5% off MSRP.

Agreed on the Hellcat. Absolutely love them for what they are, but I cannot accept a rental car dashboard for my 60-70k.

Honestly, my v2 still has an extended cpo warranty until 2020. I will be in the market for the next car as the warranty gets closer to ending. I keep my cars stock and hence I was wondering what would take the cake as a faster/ overall better car from the factory. My biggest gripe about bmw is the 10 other variants ,300 options and LCI updates the m5 will get through it's generation. Price wise, I feel like the price difference between the cars will be warranted if one is significantly faster. I plan on getting whatever is next certified pre-owned and the m5/e63 will definitely be more expensive on the cpo market. If it is a lot faster, it would warrant the extra cost in my head. The looks of the v3 and my of bias towards the V line has me very indecisive. The v3 is arguably one of the meanest looking cars on the road and there is a hell of a lot of car for the price. My favorite thing about the v3 is how much comes standard without affecting the performance or overall feel of the car. I'll keep my eye on the good old interweb for roll races and more tests between these cars. I have sometime before making my choice. Thanks for all the replies, everyone definitely raised very good points to keep in mind!
In reading your response the underlying theme tends to be speed. If that is genuinely your only concern, then I wouldn't spend the money on the Germans. Do 5k worth of bolt-ons on the V, and you wont have to worry about any production sedans of any kind.

...Ok maybe the P100D ;)
 

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I'll give you the RS7 is a stretch price-wise but lets not split hairs over 2 and 4k, on the M5 and E63S, respectively. No one spending 100k on a sedan will have their mind changed by a few k. And just like we are all well aware the V doesn't sell for sticker, if you know where to look, neither do the Germans. You can get into them for around 4-5% off MSRP.

Agreed on the Hellcat. Absolutely love them for what they are, but I cannot accept a rental car dashboard for my 60-70k.



In reading your response the underlying theme tends to be speed. If that is genuinely your only concern, then I wouldn't spend the money on the Germans. Do 5k worth of bolt-ons on the V, and you wont have to worry about any production sedans of any kind.

...Ok maybe the P100D ;)
A few k? The V starts at $86k. The closest to that is the M and it’s $16k more expensive just to start. We aren’t going to get into deals because there are too many variables.

OP already says he keeps his cars stock, so he wants fastest right of the assembly line. P100d would be a great choice but the msrp on that is $135k. But hey what’s another 35k?


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Honestly, my v2 still has an extended cpo warranty until 2020. I will be in the market for the next car as the warranty gets closer to ending. I keep my cars stock and hence I was wondering what would take the cake as a faster/ overall better car from the factory. My biggest gripe about bmw is the 10 other variants ,300 options and LCI updates the m5 will get through it's generation. Price wise, I feel like the price difference between the cars will be warranted if one is significantly faster. I plan on getting whatever is next certified pre-owned and the m5/e63 will definitely be more expensive on the cpo market. If it is a lot faster, it would warrant the extra cost in my head. The looks of the v3 and my of bias towards the V line has me very indecisive. The v3 is arguably one of the meanest looking cars on the road and there is a hell of a lot of car for the price. My favorite thing about the v3 is how much comes standard without affecting the performance or overall feel of the car. I'll keep my eye on the good old interweb for roll races and more tests between these cars. I have sometime before making my choice. Thanks for all the replies, everyone definitely raised very good points to keep in mind!
Honestly when it comes time to purchase then you will just have to drive the options and find what you like best. All of these new super sedans are super quick and have their positives and negatives and different value propositions.

I would personally want the car that is most fun/rewarding to drive which pretty unanimously is the V3. All the new big German cars are fast as hell but fat and numb. And the AWD even with the new M5's trick AWD with burnout RWD mode it still loses something for me IMO.

If all you care about is straight line speed or bragging rights then probably get a Hellcat charger or probably also the M5. If you want a drivers car or the sound of a big supercharge V8 then the V3 is your thing. If you want the best interior I would say Mercedes or Audi is probably on top.
 

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having owned 3 V's, I can honestly say that I cant think of any other car I would buy under 100K other than a V. as for the MSRP on the M and the AMG, I looked and once you add options to them, they are quickly over 120K whereas a fully loaded, every box checked V will come in around 105K, and 7000 of that is the carbon fiber package.

I have never owned a german car, and from everything I have heard, they are great if they are under warranty. but if they aren't, its an arm and a leg to repair things when they break. then if you went to mod the S7, M5, or E63S, you are looking at at least 10K for the same gain in power you can get from less than 3000 dollars in a V3.
 

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Honestly when it comes time to purchase then you will just have to drive the options and find what you like best. All of these new super sedans are super quick and have their positives and negatives and different value propositions.

I would personally want the car that is most fun/rewarding to drive which pretty unanimously is the V3. All the new big German cars are fast as hell but fat and numb. And the AWD even with the new M5's trick AWD with burnout RWD mode it still loses something for me IMO.

If all you care about is straight line speed or bragging rights then probably get a Hellcat charger or probably also the M5. If you want a drivers car or the sound of a big supercharge V8 then the V3 is your thing. If you want the best interior I would say Mercedes or Audi is probably on top.
You talk about about numb, and losing this and that, so I take it you've driven an '18 M5 or E63S? I think a lot of people regurgitate choice opinions of auto journalists and youtube personas that suit their narrative, in order to justify their purchases. In my opinion, if you haven't personally driven it, you have no opinion.

Your first 2 sentences hit the nail on the head. The best way to know what you want is to go sample the palette. OP needs to drive the vehicles back-to-back and see what sings to him.

having owned 3 V's, I can honestly say that I cant think of any other car I would buy under 100K other than a V. as for the MSRP on the M and the AMG, I looked and once you add options to them, they are quickly over 120K whereas a fully loaded, every box checked V will come in around 105K, and 7000 of that is the carbon fiber package.

I have never owned a german car, and from everything I have heard, they are great if they are under warranty. but if they aren't, its an arm and a leg to repair things when they break. then if you went to mod the S7, M5, or E63S, you are looking at at least 10K for the same gain in power you can get from less than 3000 dollars in a V3.
Yes the Germans are more expensive, and some say for good reason.

Agreed, I wouldn't own Germans out of warranty. But lets not pretend GM reliability is anything to boast about--you can't go past the first page on this forum without threads on transmission issues, CUE failures, brakes, quality concerns, etc.

In regards to power upgrades, you would be surprised at the stupid power available for the Germans with mild bolt ons (for comparable money).

2018 E63S with Pure Stage 1 turbos (re-wheeled oem turbos for $3.5k), downpipes ($1.5k), and tune (1.5k), netted 761 AWHP/748 AWTQ. This is on pump 93, and would be over 800whp in the rear drive mode. What do you have to do to a V3 to make 800rwhp on pump gas? It for sure wont be 3k.

 

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You talk about about numb, and losing this and that, so I take it you've driven an '18 M5 or E63S? I think a lot of people regurgitate choice opinions of auto journalists and youtube personas that suit their narrative, in order to justify their purchases. In my opinion, if you haven't personally driven it, you have no opinion.

Your first 2 sentences hit the nail on the head. The best way to know what you want is to go sample the palette. OP needs to drive the vehicles back-to-back and see what sings to him.



Yes the Germans are more expensive, and some say for good reason.

Agreed, I wouldn't own Germans out of warranty. But lets not pretend GM reliability is anything to boast about--you can't go past the first page on this forum without threads on transmission issues, CUE failures, brakes, quality concerns, etc.

In regards to power upgrades, you would be surprised at the stupid power available for the Germans with mild bolt ons (for comparable money).

2018 E63S with Pure Stage 1 turbos (re-wheeled oem turbos for $3.5k), downpipes ($1.5k), and tune (1.5k), netted 761 AWHP/748 AWTQ. This is on pump 93, and would be over 800whp in the rear drive mode. What do you have to do to a V3 to make 800rwhp on pump gas? It for sure wont be 3k.
They make stupid power but no way in hell I would have the balls to void the warranty on that thing!


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They make stupid power but no way in hell I would have the balls to void the warranty on that thing!


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Mike, you just gotta make sure to provide your local service advisor with a few cubans and a bottle of whiskey ;)
 

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On the other hand, sometimes a man's got to do what a man's got to do.
When in prison, I guess that applies.

Out here, I'd need at least a 20....
 
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