[aluminum360]

What made you change your mind? What'd your car put down? I know I saw your thread somewhere.

 

[Blades1_99]

What made you change your mind? What'd your car put down? I know I saw your thread somewhere.

Advice about flow matching up with the ported JokerZ I was getting.

 

[aluminum360]

Hmm, what was the advice? I'll likely be going through Kong with mine next winter.

 

[Blades1_99]

I would be lying if I can adequately describe but it was regarding the Jokerz porting and the runners of the Brodix matching up for max flow.

Kong might be different.

 

[aluminum360]

Weird, not sure I buy that. The runners are pretty much set where they are across all of the heads because of the location of the runners coming out of the blower, and the headers. Especially once someone ports aftermarket castings.

Who gave you the advice, and what heads did you end up with?

 

[Blades1_99]

Xtreme CFM heads.

 

[aluminum360]

Lsa or Ls3 castings? Or did you have them port aftermarkets?

 

[Blades1_99]

Lsa or Ls3 castings? Or did you have them port aftermarkets?

LS3 Aftermarket heads fully ported, Setup for LSA with valve job so they could be bolted on without the need to send out.

 

[SilverSedan]

Great write up. Wow that seems like a lot of places to potentially screw up. Great job!

So you change the cam gear and chain but keep original crank pulley? Always thought a timing chain was a matched set.

 

[papi]

Crank gear is usually not changed. Cam gear was changed because new cam is 3 bolt and stock cam was 1 bolt.

 

[aluminum360]

I've been wrenching a long time and I can say that turning the key for the first time is never 100% worry free lol. Yes the cam gear is only changed because of the bolt pattern on the cam.

Unfortunately I can't get in anywhere to get a tune, so ultimately this project turned my car into a paper weight for now.

 

[aluminum360]

Updated with torque specs and sequences.

 

[Lt1z]

Weird, not sure I buy that. The runners are pretty much set where they are across all of the heads because of the location of the runners coming out of the blower, and the headers. Especially once someone ports aftermarket castings.

Who gave you the advice, and what heads did you end up with?

FWIW I have used the LME Brodix with LSA blowers ported by many different outfits, LS9 ported blowers by many and Kong 2650s and Magnuson 2650s. All work well , in fact one just did 185 boost only in the 1/2 mile yesterday

 

[Rubber Duck]

I would be lying if I can adequately describe but it was regarding the Jokerz porting and the runners of the Brodix matching up for max flow.

Kong might be different.

I think what Blades was speaking about is simple gasket matching.
I will include an applicable video below.

Most cylinder heads carry with them the size of the valve, as well as the
volume of the runners, which is given in CC's within their tech specs.

In my opinion, if you replace the cylinder heads, it's best to at least
check the intake manifold to cylinder head ports matching.

However, in many cases today, just knowing the volume of the runners
is not going to suffice, even if the intake to cylinder head retaining devices
that clamp the cylinder head to the intake manifold are located in exactly
the same location as with the factory heads.

Why?

Because even if the volume of the runner is the same, the runner inlet
side might have been moved. Again, the clamping devices, mostly just
a simple cap screw, are in the same place, but the inlet runner has been
moved a bit to aid in better flow.

So in Blades case, since JokerZ apparently removed material on the outlet
side of the intake manifold, it most likely has been enlarged just a bit.

If the outlet of the intake manifold is larger than the inlet of the cylinder head,
then nothing would be obstructing the inlet side of the cylinder head, assuming
the bolt locations that fasten the heads to the intake manifold have not been
changed.

Now, I have gone on record as stating I won't use a BR-3 Brodix head.
So I don't know if the port has been moved on the Brodix Head?

I don't like their combustion chamber design!
I much prefer the Mast Combustion Chambers!

Initially I like the CNC Chamber on the new Dart Heads,
but have not been involved with an engine project to
date using that head.

Evidently Tony feels that since the manifold has been ported,which
is an overkill statement for opening up the inlet side of the cylinder
head runner, he might know something I don't?

In any event; most engine builders would desire to know the answer to
that question, and would proceed to gasket match the cylinder head
to intake manifold, at their gasket surfaces, even if the manufacturer
told them the port entry had not been changed.

Since many hobbyists don't know the above, I believe Tony would, and
he simply stated what would be the easiest thing to do in this circumstance.

Blades is very good at what he does, but as he states; he is not an
performance engine builder, he is simply a 'Hot Shoe'..lol

In the end, Blades got a very good head, that not only flows well on the bench,
but when paired with the proper camshaft, also runs well down the track well.

Now, I know what Blades heads flow, does anyone have the flow numbers
for the LME heads?

Here is a link to a good video, just a little over 5-Minutes Long
regarding gasket matching.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Below is the combustion chamber of the Dart Pro LS3 Head.

Here, the criteria is that the valve will be of equal distance
from the combustion chamber wall, as the valve is lifted.

If the above criteria is held, then the Discharge Coefficient
of the cylinder heads flow, at any lift is maintained.

-below-
Versus the 'Crappy' laid back chamber of the stock LS3 / LSA Head.

With this design, the valve opens and enters a more or less flat
combustion chamber, which causes much turbulence.

When turbulence occurs, the Discharge Coefficient goes to Hell,
along with your HP.

Secondly; per Bernoulli; when velocity goes 'Down', pressure, or opposing
pressure in this case, goes 'UP'. Yes, they are inversely related!

The exchange for one, gives the other. . . .

It becomes very difficult to fill a cylinder with opposing pressure!

Bernoulli is a little difficult to understand.
It can take much time. . .

But understanding the teachings of Bernoulli, answers many
of the questions one has regarding cylinder head flow, as well
as cylinder filling.

There are other disciplines that are also important, but Bernoulli
is a good place to start..😊

Cheers,
RD

 

[Blades1_99]

@aluminum360 ^^^ there you go.

 

[Rubber Duck]

I would also like to add that Aluminum 360 has documented very well
the process of changing out the cylinder heads and camshaft here.

I hope that he puts this thread in his signature line, for any forum
member that is going to 'Open That Hood' to check out what's
involved as he stated..LOL

Cheers,
RD

 

[aluminum360]

Ah that makes sense RD, luckily I'm only in this for fun so my heads should get the job done lol.

Thanks for the kind words about the write up. I probably should have taken a few notes along the way to make it better, but I think I covered the basics and the things that can be especially annoying.

 

[Rubber Duck]

Ah that makes sense RD, luckily I'm only in this for fun so my heads should get the job done lol.

Thanks for the kind words about the write up. I probably should have taken a few notes along the way to make it better, but I think I covered the basics and the things that can be especially annoying.

You wrote:
"Ah that makes sense RD, luckily I'm only in this for fun so my heads should get the job done lol."

Brodix made a good head for these engines at one time.
However, they changed the design of the head for some unknown reason?

So, I like some others, simply walked away from the head at that time.

It is very possible that they took the advice of the cylinder head
porters at that time and repaired the problems.

I don't know, as I don't get out to engine shops much anymore
and have not been involved with a critical engine design and
Engine Dyno session in a while that would verify various
design questions.

I have great respect for LME, and is why I asked for the flow numbers.

If the flow numbers are good, I might decide to make some phone calls
and find out if the combustion chamber issues have also been dealt with.

Cheers,
Bruce

 

[aluminum360]

I don't have the flow numbers unfortunately, at least I don't think they gave me bench numbers. I think when TEA did my trick flows I got a sheet. I do have a couple pics of them. Hopefully the dyno tells the story, but there are only 2 reputable shops near me and it's like pulling teeth to get in.

Scratch that, I guess I never took pics of underneath.

 

[papi]

I think these are the heads that you have -> Brodix BR3 6 Bolt LS3 Cylinder Head (latemodelengines.com)