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yea im all for people to go EV if it suits them but if not then the ICE is fine especially in Aus when u get in the outback u cant just take extra batteries with u or spend days linked up to a portable solar panel trying to recharge but u can take a few jerry cans full of fuel which will get u hundreds of km/miles of driving instantly, EV's have there place and ICE have there place and either one shouldnt be forced onto the population, those battery fires are nuts tho ive herd u cant put them out either just have to let it burn out as they are self sustaining
 

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I am simply cutting and pasting a post from Speed-Talk here.

Re: Only in California ... maybe not ...coming to your State ??
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Comment below from me. . .

Some people need to understand;
Batteries don't generate electricity, they simply function as a storage vessel.

Also, again;
Why would anyone remove a system today, a working system => oil, gasoline refinery, gas station, gas pump, which is currently supplying us with all of the energy we require. This system currently is available, and used by millions around the globe every day.

Why do they feel the need to replace that 'Life Sustaining' system, which was developed about 140 years ago, still is working well today, but still move forward and force us to use storage batteries, in just a few years time?

What's the rush?

On top of the above; the battery only stores energy, and does not generate, or replenish it's energy. The energy stored within the battery, will be depleted when an electrical current flows.

Now, how will that energy be re-generated once electricity has begun to flow? Maybe by Coal, or maybe by continuing to refine oil into gasoline?

Would they not still be polluting the air!

Finally, large amounts of taxes are collect every day, for every gallon of gas purchased.
How will they replace those taxes?
"and used by millions "

Should be billions.
 
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And Lithium fires are not something I want to deal with in my garage, in the middle of the night!

Gasoline powered cars catch fire when refueling, fairly often. And there have been many, many examples where gas powered car manufacturers cautioned owners to park their cars outside because of a known fire risk (that was under recall). Gas cars catch fire in a crash. They catch fire sometimes just driving them down the road.

The same batteries that are in an electric car are in the cell phones and tablets and laptops in your home that you probably leave connected to a charger all the time. There are billions and billions of Lithium batteries in use and they must be very safe or houses would be burning down all the time.

Electric cars have their negatives (see what I did there? :)), but the fire risk isn't really one of them. The problem isn't so much their probability of catching fire, it's more putting the fire out, which you can't do, because it's not actually a "fire" (combustion), it's a "highly energetic exothermic chemical reaction".

Also, it's the fast charging that tends to increase the fire risk. Overnight charging is low-charge-rate charging and is very unlikely to precipitate a failure.

Don't get me wrong, I think electric cars are soulless and anathema to a true "motorhead". But they're arguably no more or less of a fire risk than a car with 20 gallons of highly volatile liquid fuel.
 

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Gasoline powered cars catch fire when refueling, fairly often. And there have been many, many examples where gas powered car manufacturers cautioned owners to park their cars outside because of a known fire risk (that was under recall). Gas cars catch fire in a crash. They catch fire sometimes just driving them down the road.

The same batteries that are in an electric car are in the cell phones and tablets and laptops in your home that you probably leave connected to a charger all the time. There are billions and billions of Lithium batteries in use and they must be very safe or houses would be burning down all the time.

Electric cars have their negatives (see what I did there? :)), but the fire risk isn't really one of them. The problem isn't so much their probability of catching fire, it's more putting the fire out, which you can't do, because it's not actually a "fire" (combustion), it's a "highly energetic exothermic chemical reaction".

Also, it's the fast charging that tends to increase the fire risk. Overnight charging is low-charge-rate charging and is very unlikely to precipitate a failure.

Don't get me wrong, I think electric cars are soulless and anathema to a true "motorhead". But they're arguably no more or less of a fire risk than a car with 20 gallons of highly volatile liquid fuel.
Very Good, and I agree with much of what you stated!

However, my point regarding the charging of Lithium Batteries, was only related to the potential fire of a lithium battery being charged in my garage at night. Personally, I feel much better with my IC Engine-Vehicle sitting in my garage at night, as I don't have a gas pump in my garage, which might ignite while I fill the gas tank. ;)

I much prefer it that way..::)

You might take a different view point then I, and I have no problem with that. But I don't feel 'Warm & Fuzzy' about having a world-wide plan, forcing us to shut down the fossil fuel industry, before they have a 'Real Plan' to replace it.

Ideologies are one thing, reality is another!

Also, you are speaking to a person who once had a cell phone, simply sitting in his pocket, become so hot, so quickly, that I did not want to touch the phone. I had to almost tip myself over to get the phone to fall to the ground.

Cheers
 

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Very Good, and I agree with much of what you stated!

However, my point regarding the charging of Lithium Batteries, was only related to the potential fire of a lithium battery being charged in my garage at night. Personally, I feel much better with my IC Engine-Vehicle sitting in my garage at night, as I don't have a gas pump in my garage, which might ignite while I fill the gas tank. ;)

I much prefer it that way..::)

You might take a different view point then I, and I have no problem with that. But I don't feel 'Warm & Fuzzy' about having a world-wide plan, forcing us to shut down the fossil fuel industry, before they have a 'Real Plan' to replace it.

Ideologies are one thing, reality is another!

Also, you are speaking to a person who once had a cell phone, simply sitting in his pocket, become so hot, so quickly, that I did not want to touch the phone. I had to almost tip myself over to get the phone to fall to the ground.

Cheers



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That looks like an old 'Analog Phone' I use to have.
Sometime back in the 1990's I took mine to a race in Arizona.

Not many of those were around at that time..lol

One of the racers I knew saw it my trailer, and asked if he could use it.
And I said 'Sure'.

Turns out he and his buddies used it when I wasn't looking, and ran up a +$900.00 bill.:mad:
 
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However, my point regarding the charging of Lithium Batteries, was only related to the potential fire of a lithium battery being charged in my garage at night. Personally, I feel much better with my IC Engine-Vehicle sitting in my garage at night, as I don't have a gas pump in my garage, which might ignite while I fill the gas tank.
Yeah. But my point was that there are a fair share of examples of people who parked their internal combustion car in their garage and it caught fire and burned down their house, due to some defect in the car (like a leaking brake fluid pressure sender dripping brake fluid on a hot exhaust manifold) that ultimately resulted in a recall. I'm too lazy to go searching for specific examples, but there have been cases where owners were instructed not to park in their garages until the recall had been completed. The odds of a car catching fire when slow charging overnight in your garage isn't going to be much higher than your gas engine springing a leak and bursting in to flames.

There are a lot more lithium batteries out there than there are cars. They ship billions of the damn things each year. If they didn't have an exceedingly low failure rate, given the numbers shipped, we would all know someone who's laptop or tablet or cell phone caught fire while they were charging it. These kinds of failures do happen, but not very often.

That all being said, I don't park anything in my garage and that's unlikely to change when/if I finally buy an electric car. But now isn't the time to buy. The technology is evolving at a fast pace and what's good enough now is likely to be outdated in another 5 years or so. I'll wait for things to "shake out".
 

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The math is simple. And when you do it (like I did, many years ago), it becomes immediately evident that if everyone bought an electric car, the nation's power grid would collapse the first time any more than about 1/4 of the owners plugged in to charge.

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That’s extreme, and I can’t help associate it with what happened to cell phones. Specifically Apple, where they prevented anyone from replacing the phone battery. Now a days the premium brands sort of have an ego/reputation to sustain, Tesla in full action


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Comparing electric power to internal combustion is like comparing a Microwave Oven to a BBQ. Everyone agrees, the Microwave will cook food faster. But nobody wants a microwaved steak. If you want your steak to taste good, you gotta cook it with fire. Even though it might take a bit longer, you know it'll be worth it.

So if you are the kind of person who likes Steak, the choice of car type is obvious.
 

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Comparing electric power to internal combustion is like comparing a Microwave Oven to a BBQ. Everyone agrees, the Microwave will cook food faster. But nobody wants a microwaved steak. If you want your steak to taste good, you gotta cook it with fire. Even though it might take a bit longer, you know it'll be worth it.

So if you are the kind of person who likes Steak, the choice of car type is obvious.
See post #16512:



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Comparing electric power to internal combustion is like comparing a Microwave Oven to a BBQ. Everyone agrees, the Microwave will cook food faster. But nobody wants a microwaved steak. If you want your steak to taste good, you gotta cook it with fire. Even though it might take a bit longer, you know it'll be worth it.

So if you are the kind of person who likes Steak, the choice of car type is obvious.
Are you attempting to debate; should we be cooking steaks in our garage,
after the EV caught on fire, while it was charging?..;);)
 
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Well, that's a bit more of a challenging question to answer. But I would argue that a wood or coal fired BBQ is better than an electrically fired grill. So no, I would not debate cooking a steak on a burning EV. It'll still taste like shit.
 
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