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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've been hesitant to post on here but I've been having some serious brake related issues while tracking my '14 V-Sport recently and I'm not really finding resources. Low production woes. Is there a section of ctsvowners I could post in to get some ideas or could any of y'all suggest a more appropriate forum for my little 3.6TT?
 

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I would think if it shares hardware your in.
 

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I've been hesitant to post on here but I've been having some serious brake related issues while tracking my '14 V-Sport recently and I'm not really finding resources. Low production woes. Is there a section of ctsvowners I could post in to get some ideas or could any of y'all suggest a more appropriate forum for my little 3.6TT?
Nobody is going to hate on you for having the vsport, but I don't think there are many vsport owners here either. So I don't think we share hardware, but there a a lot of knowledgeable people here; many of whom, do track their cars.
What issues are you having, and what have you tried to fix them so far?
 

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FWIW
 
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There you go(y) That is probably the best source of knowledge regarding your hardware, but probably a lot more people who actually "track" their cars on this forum. Depends on what you are troubleshooting.
 

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Hey, brakes is brakes... tell us what you are running into.
 

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Also rhere are videos on you tube by “Jet Fuel Only” that focus specifically on the V-Sport. Many of the videos show performance modifications for the V-Sport.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks all. The V-Sport forum over at cadillacforums has been pretty hit or miss for me. More miss than hit. I think it does probably has to do with comparatively few people taking their cars out for track days. Or maybe less of these are owned by enthusiasts. Either way, the issues I've gone there with tend to get very little response.

So in a nutshell, the last time I went out the car ate a brand new set of HPS 5.0 in the rear on a single day (fronts were fine). More disconcertingly, the rears got so hot they burned the pistons which are now crumbling. And it managed to do some terrible things to the poor remnants of pads.

Piston had a bad day
Pad had a worse day

So I'm curious what you guys think could be the cause. Someone suggested to me it could be because I'm driving with TC on but this is also the first time it's happened. Someone else thinks it could be because the fronts are fading too badly so the rears have to pick up more of the effort. This was the first time I took out the sticky 100 treadwear tires so maybe the brakes had to do a lot more. And (humble brag) I put down my personal best as well.

Second is what you guys think could be possible solutions here. Unfortunately I can't find track specific Hawk of EBC products for my rears so the obvious "use racing pads" doesn't seem to be a solution.

Last, the primary question that led me to this corner of the internet, do you think going to Gen 3 V brakes all around is a viable solution? I'm on 18's so I'm assuming I'd have to go up to 19's for that, but are there any other issues with the concept?
 

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Thanks all. The V-Sport forum over at cadillacforums has been pretty hit or miss for me. More miss than hit. I think it does probably has to do with comparatively few people taking their cars out for track days. Or maybe less of these are owned by enthusiasts. Either way, the issues I've gone there with tend to get very little response.

So in a nutshell, the last time I went out the car ate a brand new set of HPS 5.0 in the rear on a single day (fronts were fine). More disconcertingly, the rears got so hot they burned the pistons which are now crumbling. And it managed to do some terrible things to the poor remnants of pads.

Piston had a bad day
Pad had a worse day

So I'm curious what you guys think could be the cause. Someone suggested to me it could be because I'm driving with TC on but this is also the first time it's happened. Someone else thinks it could be because the fronts are fading too badly so the rears have to pick up more of the effort. This was the first time I took out the sticky 100 treadwear tires so maybe the brakes had to do a lot more. And (humble brag) I put down my personal best as well.

Second is what you guys think could be possible solutions here. Unfortunately I can't find track specific Hawk of EBC products for my rears so the obvious "use racing pads" doesn't seem to be a solution.

Last, the primary question that led me to this corner of the internet, do you think going to Gen 3 V brakes all around is a viable solution? I'm on 18's so I'm assuming I'd have to go up to 19's for that, but are there any other issues with the concept?
Thatz some aggressive wear if that was done in a day.
I will be surprised if the ABS or traction control is not the culprit.
It would be logical to turn off traction and start from there.
 

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Tracking a car that is not built for tracking will surely end in those results. I tracked my v and needed new brakes after the session. Mind you it was my first time but the V2 is supposedly track ready. Just my experience.
 

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Thanks all. The V-Sport forum over at cadillacforums has been pretty hit or miss for me. More miss than hit. I think it does probably has to do with comparatively few people taking their cars out for track days. Or maybe less of these are owned by enthusiasts. Either way, the issues I've gone there with tend to get very little response.

So in a nutshell, the last time I went out the car ate a brand new set of HPS 5.0 in the rear on a single day (fronts were fine). More disconcertingly, the rears got so hot they burned the pistons which are now crumbling. And it managed to do some terrible things to the poor remnants of pads.

Piston had a bad day
Pad had a worse day

So I'm curious what you guys think could be the cause. Someone suggested to me it could be because I'm driving with TC on but this is also the first time it's happened. Someone else thinks it could be because the fronts are fading too badly so the rears have to pick up more of the effort. This was the first time I took out the sticky 100 treadwear tires so maybe the brakes had to do a lot more. And (humble brag) I put down my personal best as well.

Second is what you guys think could be possible solutions here. Unfortunately I can't find track specific Hawk of EBC products for my rears so the obvious "use racing pads" doesn't seem to be a solution.

Last, the primary question that led me to this corner of the internet, do you think going to Gen 3 V brakes all around is a viable solution? I'm on 18's so I'm assuming I'd have to go up to 19's for that, but are there any other issues with the concept?
You using Track Mode at the track? If no, try it. If yes, then maybe those rear brakes are working overtime to compensate for your... umm.... 'talent'? (meant in a friendly ball-busting manner :p) Would think Track Mode might be more tolerant of shinanigans, but it could actually be working those rear brakes harder to keep you pointed in the right direction on track. That's how the TC in my Charger worked anyway. Track was actually more restrictive than Sport since sideways isn't the fastest way around the track.

Don't really know if the V3 brakes are bolt on. I would guess they are, but if nobody's tried it, there's only one way to find out. Maybe a local V3 owner could help out and let you pop the wheels off and take a look to compare.

Ever look to see if they make titanium pad shims for your factory brakes? Had them on my V1 to try to keep the heat away from the calipers, but I never truly put them to the test.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
@cldcode, I think you're probably right here. I may just try with the same setup but no TC and check the pads periodically throughout the day (which I should be doing anyway).

@piening2150, even in a friendly ball-busting manner I'm afraid "talent" is a vast overstatement! With luck, one day I'll be horribly offended by your comment.

Pretty interesting thought on track mode. The problem with taking her out of track mode is the power is up top on the LF3. The car constantly denies me shifts so I just keep the tranny in auto. If it's not in track mode the car lets the revs drop down and it's not nearly as engaging to drive.

On the shims, I found titanium shims for the fronts but I can't find any for the rear. Is that the sort of thing I could get someone in town to fab up for me out of a larger piece of titanium or is it probably a no-go because the metal is too hard?
 

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100% a TC issue. It's basically applying the rear brakes constantly during the session.

Try Porterfield brakes for pads. If they don't have the pattern they could probably make them.

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Yes, it looks like TC is working really diligently to say “don’t do that!”
Also, you swapped tires, did you also change diameter?


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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Yes, it looks like TC is working really diligently to say “don’t do that!”
Also, you swapped tires, did you also change diameter?


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Ohhhhh. I changed width. Went from 275 to 255 so I could get a killer deal on some closeout Nexens.

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Ohhhhh. I changed width. Went from 275 to 255 so I could get a killer deal on some closeout Nexens.

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Width is no issue, the diameter, though, can confuse the TC as it will try constantly to make all the wheels turn the same speed. A small diameter change won’t create an issue but a large change can.


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Changing the width of the front or rear without changing the profile can definitely cause TC problems. But if you went to a taller rear wheel with stock front, to the TC it looks like the rear wheels are going slower. It should have the opposite effect on rear braking, from the TC you should get more wheel spin before TC engages. If you went to a taller tire all around, then TC can't tell the difference. Your speedometer is going to say you're going slower than you actually are, but that won't impact the operation of any of the nannies.

If the car does electronic limited slip, that would potentially be a source of heavy rear brake wear. But I can't think of a reason taller tires all around would matter for that, either.

I tracked my 14 V Coupe two years ago and got my brakes hot enough I could smell 'em cooking (and that ended those laps), but they're still the same pads on the car now. Admittedly, I haven't driven it more than a couple 100 miles in the last year, but still, it's a heavy car. But I run with all the nannies off.

Turn off TC, run a lap, come in and check your temps. If it's cool, go out a run a few laps and come in again and check. If it's cool you've solved your problem. If you still get hot rear brakes with TC off, turn off AH (full track mode) but take it easy at first since you may not realize how much the nannies were doing for you.

The only other thing I can think of is mechanical. Someplace there's got to be something that is biasing the brake force front/rear. If that's busted, it could explain your problem. Do you have one of those laser contactless thermometers? If you don't, get one (great for tire temps at the track). Go someplace where there's a decent straight line you can drive without other traffic. Accelerate gently up to a decent speed and then stand on the brakes. When the car stops, get out and check all the discs. If the rears are hotter than the fronts, the braking system needs service.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Changing the width of the front or rear without changing the profile can definitely cause TC problems. But if you went to a taller rear wheel with stock front, to the TC it looks like the rear wheels are going slower. It should have the opposite effect on rear braking, from the TC you should get more wheel spin before TC engages. If you went to a taller tire all around, then TC can't tell the difference. Your speedometer is going to say you're going slower than you actually are, but that won't impact the operation of any of the nannies.

If the car does electronic limited slip, that would potentially be a source of heavy rear brake wear. But I can't think of a reason taller tires all around would matter for that, either.

I tracked my 14 V Coupe two years ago and got my brakes hot enough I could smell 'em cooking (and that ended those laps), but they're still the same pads on the car now. Admittedly, I haven't driven it more than a couple 100 miles in the last year, but still, it's a heavy car. But I run with all the nannies off.

Turn off TC, run a lap, come in and check your temps. If it's cool, go out a run a few laps and come in again and check. If it's cool you've solved your problem. If you still get hot rear brakes with TC off, turn off AH (full track mode) but take it easy at first since you may not realize how much the nannies were doing for you.

The only other thing I can think of is mechanical. Someplace there's got to be something that is biasing the brake force front/rear. If that's busted, it could explain your problem. Do you have one of those laser contactless thermometers? If you don't, get one (great for tire temps at the track). Go someplace where there's a decent straight line you can drive without other traffic. Accelerate gently up to a decent speed and then stand on the brakes. When the car stops, get out and check all the discs. If the rears are hotter than the fronts, the braking system needs service.
@RocketSled, so you think going from 275 to 255 would effectively change the height of the tire but it wouldn't cause issues because the tire is taller?

Also, are you saying the car having E-LSD is a potential cause of rear brake wear, or it engaging excessively is a potential cause? My understanding is the V-Sport has the E-LSD off of a C7.

Yeah, I've had an IR temp gun since before COVID made them cool. Haha. Bought one initially back in the early 00s to check fuel temps in my old Benz I modded to run on vegetable oil. Had no idea I'd be using it for driving cars fast and a pandemic. What would you consider hot? Out of range for the pads? IIRC I was reading between late 600s and mid 700s last time. That's after a cool down lap and driving around at 5mph for a few minutes. And it's about the same as my previous days (haven't been writing this all down because I've been so casual about it).

Totally separate story but the first time I smelled that brakes cooking smell was actually off a track. I have a Jeep XJ I wheel and my girl and I were coming down the top of a 13k foot pass. Engine braking in 4-lo had us going like 1mph and 4-hi wasn't doing the trick alone. I didn't tell her why we had to keep pulling over and waiting. Far less controlled environment than a racetrack. Feel like I would have caught a lot of shit over that. Went to Motul 660 and Hawks as soon as we got back to civilization.
 

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This is Juicy. Running with TC on with the 3.6 is not needed unless it is raining. Try Porterfield or PFC. You have a big ask tracking the V sport with all that girth. It's going to eat brakes. You did not mention Brake fluid, what typo are you running?
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
@m13s, I'm running Motul 660 across all the cars that see heavy duty use. My fluid boiled once in the VSport when I was running the original stock fluid. Not trying to live that lifestyle. Or not live, more accurately.

TBH, the only reason I'm running with TC on is because my first time out was at an event and they gave me an instructor for two laps. He advised to use TC for beginners. I try to be humble about things and hadn't come across a reason not to run TC. But I've been out there enough times that I can no longer count so my (still modest) skill level is certainly at a point where it's not necessary any longer.
 
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