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Discussion Starter #401
Forgot to add, I won't need the PCV valley port since I'm running the MM Wild catch can and will be drilling and installing a 6AN bulkhead in the driver's side rear valve cover and pulling in fresh "metered" air into there and venting into the 10AN line on the passenger side valve cover and into the can. I like that the MM catch can has that check valve in the breather filter on the top of the can.....that keeps "unmetered" air from going in the engine and causing idle and cruise tuning issues. I figured the 10AN line was enough to handle my blow-by since on average the MM setup with this line can handle 1,000 HP worth of blow-by and still maintain vacuum at idle. Can't wait to see how it performs setup this new way.
 
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Discussion Starter #402
The new valley plate is in that doesn't have the PCV provision. I installed the 6AN port in the driver's side valve cover for the PCV to pull from there. More issues with the aftermarket snout. As I've stated, It's maxed out to flow all the air, especially at the bottom of the snout. It test fit fine, but that was with stock blower gaskets.....I'm using Felpro gaskets to accommodate the larger port and runners. The Felpro gaskets are much thinner and lower the SC closer to the valley and the water pump. Well, that's where the snout is hitting, the water pump.

I'm thinking about doing one of two things:

Buy thermal plates to raise the blower back up, expensive.

Attempt to grind the snout a little and the water pump to provide the clearance....which might not be enough and there's potential to mess up both things by porting too thin.

I guess Fasterproms stopped making thermal plates....so I'll have to research other brands. Regardless, those will have to be ported to to match the current runner shape.
 
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Discussion Starter #403
Did some research and looks like plates made on non-metallic material doesn't allow the blower to transfer heat under boost to the engine to be handled by the cooling system. I noticed a few people reporting minimal or no gain with non-metallic plates. I opted for aluminum ones, about 1/2".

I wonder if they will help with runner velocity?
 

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Under forced induction at 20psi I'd wager the longer runners and mating surfaces only increase resistance, and are an impediment to flow while increasing heat? More plenum area is good- longer runners are bad IMHO.

But that's a good question for the fluid dynamics guys to accurately answer.


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Discussion Starter #405
Under forced induction at 20psi I'd wager the longer runners and mating surfaces only increase resistance, and are an impediment to flow while increasing heat? More plenum area is good- longer runners are bad IMHO.

But that's a good question for the fluid dynamics guys to accurately answer.

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That makes sense....I have no choice but to run the 1/2" spacer so I'm not trying for performance, but I don't want to hurt things, but I can't see 1/2" hurting that much if any. Anyway, they are on the way. Should have them hogged out and installed this Friday. Ordered two Felpro 1222-2 gasket sets since I'm sure I'll cut into the machined o-ring grooves on the one side of the spacer when I port match the bastards....yay, more porting (insert sarcastic voice).

Here's a couple photos of my progress....or lack there of...lol.

Also, I snuck in a "go fuck yourself looters" little situation should our neighbor hood get visited.
 

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So now imma start posting pics of my gear - since I dont have a car. :D

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Discussion Starter #407
So now imma start posting pics of my gear - since I dont have a car. :D

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I can get behind that.
 
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So now imma start posting pics of my gear - since I dont have a car. :D

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Soon we will be getting pictures of Jesse 'Cutting His Lawn'. . . .
Of course there will be a thread that will accompany the pictures.

It will be about how to get the best fuel mileage out of his lawn mower,
what spark plug gap is the best, what is the best timing, etc..:LOL:
 
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Soon we will be getting pictures of Jesse 'Cutting His Lawn'. . . .
Of course there will be a thread that will accompany the pictures.

It will be about how to get the best fuel mileage out of his lawn mower,
what spark plug gap is the best, what is the best timing, etc..
Like @JAustin said...I can get behind that! LOLOL!!

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Understanding IC Engines is not easy.
Only those who make a commitment to learn. . "Will Learn!"..lol

The flow data I provided in my earlier post, that you re-posted
regarding ported 1.9L & 2.3L TVS Eaton's is important.

Each blower has it's place, and each blower may require
a different sized TB for a specific application.

The easiest way to approach the fitting of the blower
is to understand the simple formula that gives the
cfm value related to 100% Volumetric Efficiency.

If the engine has an internal volume of 427 cid
and your going to shift at 6800 rpm's, then
what will the engine inhale (volumetric flow rate)
given in cfm. . .

=> (427 * 6800 / 3456)= 840 cfm.

So if your goal is to generate 1-Bar of boost (15 psi)
which in turn is added to the ambient / surrounding
pressure of 15-psi (rounded up from 14.7) you would
now have 2-BAR of absolute pressure (ABS) in the manifold.

That means your blower must inhale 1680 cfm.

Even for the ported 2.3L TVS that is going to
be a big job. . . .

Usually with the larger cid engines we know we
are going to be limited in the boost department,
so we tend to recommend a higher static compression
ratio to offset the loss of boost.

Boost and static compression ratio work together
to define the torque output of an engine, against the
engines internal volume / cid.

All of the above lead to the single most important
component used to define the performance of
an engine. That is the component called BMEP.

Brake Mean Effective Pressure. . .

With limited boost one can increase the cylinder
pressure by closing the intake valve a little early.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Does one really require 1680 cfm?

If everything is working ideally 1680 cfm would produce how much fwHP?
=> (1680 * 0.67)= 1126 fwHP.

Generally I recommend to most the following plan;
Shoot for 1500 cfm.
Heads should flow => (1500 / 4)= 375 cfm at or
around convergence lift (as discussed earlier).

1500 cfm will generate ~ (1500 * 0.67)= 1005 fwHP.
I would expect no less than (375 * 2.4)= 900 fwHP.

Highly refined NA Engines produce around 2.4 fwHP
per cfm of cylinder head flow. So a Supercharged
engine should do that standing on it's head..lol

434 cid NA Chevrolet Engine. . .
Heads flowed 385 cfm.

(375 * 2.4)= 900 potential fwHP.
Made 903!

Piston area is 13.56 Sq."
(13.56 * 100)= 1356

(1356 cfm * 0.67)= 909 fwHP.

--------------------------------------

Piston area of a 376 cid is 12.98.
(12.98 * 100)= 1298 cfm.
(1298 * 0.67)= 870 fwHP.

All of the above 'Assumes' that the cylinder heads
and camshaft will 'Provide' for 100 cfm / Sq." of flow,
per Sq." of piston area.

This is not easy to do on a 'Street Engine'!

------------------------------------------------------------

However:
500 NHRA Pro Stock Engine:

Piston Area equals 17.72 Sq." <= In this specific configuration!

Engine makes right at about 1585 fwHP going down track. . .
Not on the dyno!

(1585 / 0.67)= 2366 cfm.
(2366 / 17.72)= 133.5 cfm / Sq.".

But cylinder heads that can flow that cfm cost about $500,000.00..lol

Cheers
Can I pm you on here? I have a few questions about my current build and dont want to hijack this thread. Thank you, Lance
 

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Soon we will be getting pictures of Jesse 'Cutting His Lawn'. . . .
Of course there will be a thread that will accompany the pictures.

It will be about how to get the best fuel mileage out of his lawn mower,
what spark plug gap is the best, what is the best timing, etc..:LOL:
Easy. You're hitting a little close to home now..
 

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Easy. You're hitting a little close to home now..
Actually, and I have written this several times;
Jesse's mod list / archive, is one of the best sources
for info for anyone belonging to this forum.

I just like 'Bustin His Balls'..:)
 

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Can I pm you on here? I have a few questions about my current build and dont want to hijack this thread. Thank you, Lance
Best thing to do, unless you have reason not to,
is to start a build thread.

Either at the top, or the bottom of your first post write @Rubber Duck.

Then, if I don't find it by myself, you can track me
down and lead me to it if you must. . lol

Cheers
 

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This is now a Gear thread:

My night stand "looter" loadout.


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Discussion Starter #415
Has anyone attempted to keep the returnless fuel system by upgrading the line size along with the pumps?

The stock elbow on the fuel hat is .22" and I can't see the ID of the rest of the line being much more than that. My plan is to buy Adam's fuel hat and see if he can do a 8AN elbow. Adam's fuel hat is amazing (.29" ID elbow), but I'm looking for more as my future plans for the car may require it. 6AN hose is on average .34" ID and 8AN hose is on average .44" ID.

The 6AN hose might be good, but I just can't see it supporting 1,000WHP without pressure drop, maybe I'm wrong.

I know some of you are saying, just move to a return setup. That's fine and dandy, but I like the ability to run my tank down to 1/8th a tank and not worry about starvation issues like with Fore. If my stock fuel system (with Aux pump) can support what I have now, I can't see why a full 6AN or 8AN returnless setup cant support 1,000 WHP without pressure drop and you still get to enjoy the full gas tank. I'm thinking AEM pumps and my Aux setup should be plenty of pump and the larger entire line. I'd use a Y fitting (8AN to two 6AN) to some aftermarket rails.

My last dyno session my fuel system spiked to 72 PSI and leveled out 68 PSI between 5,500 - 7,000 RPM. It didn't seem to be dropping. Perhaps the 6AN fuel hat with all 6AN plumbing will be all I need. Just a thought.
 

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A -8 bulkhead likely wont fit in the same spot but it could be machined probably. Thanks a lot for the love btw! To be honest, I dont think you need to worry about anything bigger than -6 from the hat but if you want to step it up to a -8 after the aux tees in, then by all means Im in favor of that. Due to the internal hose being a 3/8 -6 size, its more complicated to change that size and at little gain if not running a third pump up through it as well.

The new module coming to market will allow for oem returnless manners with 1200+ hp support....so yea returnless doesnt have a hp ceiling, theres just not a lot on the market and return systems are the rage in the world of dick measuring over car parts. Carl at Vaporworx has been helping shops convert Fore kits to run returnless with his slave controller for a while. Prototype will be making some more progress this Friday and Im trying to meet up with my F1X test car and owner for a shakedown.
 

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Discussion Starter #417
Adam, damn man, that's a fantastic idea....run 6AN until the aux joins up, then move to 8AN. I think that's the ticket. I already have my tank tapped, so I'm not going to need your hat with the aux setup. I really like the FPCM and the ability to control fueling......especially when the fuel is hot and tuning really comes in to play as well as vapor lock issues. Unlike return systems, fuel available isn't cooled and the tune has to be able to adjust for this after heat soak. If this was a drag car only, it wouldn't be a problem, but it's a weekend tire shredder and sometimes a daily, so these settings are needed for drivability.

Thanks again Adam. I'll hit you up when I'm ready to get that hat.
 
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Why not just run the aux outlet to the front of the car? Then you’d have the 3/8 factory steel fuel line and a -6 from the aux. basically two -6 feed lines. Combined that’s enough line to do ~1400hp.
I assume you’ll be doing aftermarket fuel rails, so tying in an additional fuel line wouldn’t be too complicated.
 

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Discussion Starter #419
Why not just run the aux outlet to the front of the car? Then you’d have the 3/8 factory steel fuel line and a -6 from the aux. basically two -6 feed lines. Combined that’s enough line to do ~1400hp.
I assume you’ll be doing aftermarket fuel rails, so tying in an additional fuel line wouldn’t be too complicated.
That is a fantastic idea as well. I can't see me needing more fuel than what can be supplied with two 6AN lines. I can do Adam's fuel hat to get rid of the thin in tank line and the shitty elbow (which also has been known to break) and improve in tank pump flow. Then run 6AN line from the aux to the rails.

I imagine those two can converge into a single 8AN line, then split to two 6AN into each rail. That should keep things balanced. The aux currently feeds into some kind of check valve that keeps the fuel from back flowing into the aux inlet. I'm sure there's a check valve situation out there that would stop this from happening.
 

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The check valve is in the pump/filter. The fitting that goes in the fuel line is just a T.
I have Adams hat and DW pumps waiting to be installed and already have an aux pump. When I run out of fuel, I’m doing rails and running my aux outlet up front. I was going to add the ID fuel filter assembly up front and plumb both feeds into it, the out of it split to some radium rails.
 
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