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So to continue on the toluene topic, I would think mixing with meth injected post blower would negate the issue with cold starts right? I would also think even in colder weather that the heat in the engine bay and blower would be an effective warming mechanism depending on where the tank is located right? It would also help that it isnt a wise idea to beat on an engine that isnt at operating temp, I monitor oil temps until they hit 150* and then switch to a different parameter when I lean on the engine a bit.

As far as tracking down a pure source for toluene, aircraft maintenance uses it as a coating stripper and requires an agency certified purity of around 99-99.9% toluene with the balance being benzene. Shipping can cost more than the product, but depending on mix ratios a 5 gallon pail might last long enough to justify it.

My primary concern would be trying to tune for it and knowing what to look for as an indicator you have the right volume of the right mixture of meth and toluene being added to the engine. Im not sure how many tuners have messed with it enough to know what to look for either.
I would think that any toluene, that is rated at 99% should be good.

And yes, high contents of toluene can be an 'SOB' to work when it is cold..lol
The F1 group, back when they used high contents of toluene 'Pre-Heated' it.

Those old F1 cars ran 90% Toluene and 58 pounds of boost.
1400 hp from 1.5 liters done many years ago.

Back in the 'Dark Ages' when we use to have to mix our own fuels,
we had an Camaro with what was called a 'Snorkle Snout' hood scoop.

These hood scoops were invented by the 'Chrysler' engineers.

They were called 'Laminar' scoops, versus what the Chevrolet
racers were running at that time, called 'The Grumpy Lump', named
after Bill 'Grumpy' Jenkins who invented that scoop.

The car set records, if we could get it started using a high content of toluene..?

It was really kind of embarrassing, as it backfired back through the scoop.
Sometimes it took 5 - 10 minutes to get the engine to fire after we got to the track.

So my partner who built the engines with me, was standing in front
of the car looking down into the scoop one day.

Yep, you guessed it. . . .It backfired and burned off 1/2 his big mustache..LOL

After that incident, the driver would yell out 'Fire In The Hole'
before he cranked the cold engine over..?

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Since the system I defined earlier, which it seems your considering,
is a mix of toluene with a high quality 'Meth', and sprayed after the engine
is warm and running at high throttle tip in conditions, the cold start issue,
and the requirement of heat should be overcome.

I don't think you will be able to finalize the tune 100% on an chassis dyno.

I would also suggest that you use something like HP Tuners to finalize
the tune under actual track / road conditions, particularly when holding the
accelerator pedal down for lengthy periods of time.

Again, I was going to use the toluene, along with E85 in the tank.
The E will help cool the cylinders, as well as set the initial octane floor.

The meth will cool the interior of the intake manifold.

The toluene will help build up / fortify the MON number of the
the oxygenated fuels, which is highly lacking, and if detonated
becomes a highly explosive, as well as a highly destructive detonation.

Stay in touch and report back with your findings. . .

Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter #382
Nice choice on the WCCH route. Are you planning to port the runners or leave as-is?
Sbchris,

Yes, I'm porting the runners. I have FED CNC heads and new Felpro intake gaskets. I'll port match the Felpro gaskets to my heads and then outline that on the runners and make it all match. I plan on smoothing out the injector bosses and the runners completely. I'd use the stock metal gaskets but the rubber in them is dipping into my runner currently. The FED port is too big for factory gaskets. The Felpro gaskets are paper with some rubber spray on them and totally portable. I'll use a bit or RTV on both sides, should work perfectly.

It's going to take hours to do all the runners.....I'm prepared.
 

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Is all this talk of meth and toulene to make up for the short fall in the fuel system?

Whilst I understand what duck is saying and it’s benefits. Why don’t you just bite the bullet get a proper fuel system. Run pump e85 and then add meth for its cooling advantages if you still require.

Mixing and super fine tuning seems like a lot of work. When really it’s still a bandaid fix?
 

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It’s running methanol for cooling but the meth only exacerbates the fuel instability of E85 as a primary fuel. The toluene is to add MON to the blend and try to alleviate the instability of oxygenated fuels.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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It is but one method that might be used for those that desire to run a 'Highly Modified' car, that either uses a high 'Static
Compression'ratio, or whereby the engine has the ability to
increase it's 'Volumetric Efficiency'to such a degree, that the
'Trapped Compression' increases and the octane demands of
those engine are increased above the norm.

I was going to run just about an 11:0.1 static compression ratio
along with the ported 2300 Blower, which I ended up selling to Jesse.

Since the cylinder heads flowed 432 cfm @ about 0.600" lift,
I did not require a large duration cam to help with cylinder fill.

That was one of the criteria to which I was building the 434 cid engine.

Since the engine was large at 434 cid, I desired to build the
engine to enhance torque. Torque is associated with cylinder
pressure.

Large volume engines that use high static compression ratios
are known to generate large torque numbers.

This told me that I should close the intake valve, not at
something like 71°, as we had done on one of the NA 434
Engines, but maybe 15° to 20° sooner, in order to retain the
pressure in the cylinder.

Understanding the above, as well as understanding that the cylinder heads flowed so well, we felt the engine would hold a flat
torque curve over a wide range of rpm's, as the torque curve is
tied to the Volumetric Efficiency, and given as VE%.

This then should show up, as a somewhat wider than usual torque curve on the Dyno.

So knowing that my cylinder pressures (BMEP) were going to be
very high, and this vehicle would see limited street use, also
meaning higher engine temperatures than an engine used
exclusively on the track, I knew that the MON rating of E85 had
to be raised, in order to reduce the RON - MON number /
sensitivity number, to control self detonation.

So Daniel,
It allows for one to use a high compression, high torque engine
on the street, with an economical fuel, yet inhibit self detonation
at mid to high throttle conditions, with moderately hot engine temps.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

By the way; I just remembered you asked who did the cylinder heads.

Myself and a cylinder head porter put our 'Heads' together. . lol

We wanted good mid-lift flow, but did not want to kill off high-lift flow too much.

Very expensive project.
It took three attempts and I spent well over $10k on the project.

First set got screwed up attempting to weld the combustion
chambers. Second set did not have the mid-lift flow I calculated
we required.

Third set worked out well with custom made Titanium 2.220" valves

The engine was to use a 4.155" engine bore. . .lsX Iron Block!
=>( 2.220 / 4.155)= 53.4% ratio.

The camshaft was to be ground on tool-steel.

The cylinder head volumetric flow rate (Supply), as measured on
a flow bench, 'Versus' piston cfm (Demand) would be calculated
against each degree of crankshaft movement.

Highest piston cfm demand, is usually found at around 72° to 76°after top dead center.

An intake lobe profile is then calculated in a computer, to work with 'Those Specific' cylinder heads, to be sure the supply side
(cam and heads) will provide the required piston cfm (demand
side).

After making those calculations, the computer then tells the CNC machine how to cut the lobe.

Cheers,
Bruce
 
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It is but one method that might be used for those that desire to run
a 'Highly Modified' car, that either uses a high 'Static Compression'
ratio, or whereby the engine has the ability to increase it's 'Volumetric Efficiency'
to such a degree, that the 'Trapped Compression' increases and the octane
demands of those engine are increased above the norm.

I was going to run just about an 11:0.1 static compression ratio
along with the ported 2300 Blower, which I ended up selling to Jesse.

Since the cylinder heads flowed 432 cfm @ about 0.600" lift,
I did not require a large duration cam to help with cylinder fill

That was one of the criteria to which I was building the 434 cid engine.

Since the engine was large at 434 cid, I desired to build the
engine to enhance torque. Torque is associated with cylinder pressure.

Large volume engines that use high static compression ratios
are known to generate large torque numbers.

This told me that I should close the intake valve, not at something
like 71°, as we had done on one of the NA 434 Engines, but maybe
15° to 20° sooner, in order to retain the pressure in the cylinder.

Understanding the above, as well as understanding that the cylinder
heads flowed so well, we felt the engine would hold a flat torque
curve over a wide range of rpm's, as the torque curve is tied to
the Volumetric Efficiency, and given as VE%.

This then should show up, as a somewhat wider than usual torque curve on the Dyno.

So knowing that my cylinder pressures (BMEP) were going to be
very high, and this vehicle would see limited street use, also meaning
higher engine temperatures than an engine used exclusively on the track,
I knew that the MON rating of E85 had to be raised, in order to reduce
the RON - MON number / sensitivity number, to control self detonation.

So Daniel,
It allows for one to use a high compression, high torque engine
on the street, with an economical fuel, yet inhibit self detonation
at mid to high throttle conditions, with moderately hot engine temps.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

By the way; I just remembered you asked who did the cylinder heads.

Myself and a cylinder head porter put our 'Heads' together. . lol
We wanted good mid-lift flow, but did not want to kill off high-lift flow too much.

Very expensive project.
It took three attempts and I spent well over $10k on the project.

First set got screwed up attempting to weld the combustion chambers.
Second set did not have the mid-lift flow I calculated we required.
Third set worked out well with custom made Titanium 2.220" valves

The engine was to use a 4.155" engine bore. . .lsX Iron Block!
=>( 2.220 / 4.155)= 53.4% ratio.

The camshaft was to be ground on tool-steel.

The cylinder head volumetric flow rate (Supply), as measured on a flow bench,
'Versus' piston cfm (Demand) would be calculated against each degree of
crankshaft movement.

Highest piston cfm demand, is usually found at around 72° to 76°after top dead center.

An intake lobe profile is then calculated in a computer, to work with 'Those Specific' cylinder heads,
to be sure the supply side (cam and heads) will provide the required piston cfm (demand side).

After making those calculations, the computer then tells the CNC machine how to cut the lobe.

Cheers,
Bruce
Haha all good Bruce. I just assume everyone takes short cuts....like me LOL

Those heads sound badass. If you need someone to R&D then in REAL southern air. Let me know and I’ll PM you the address to my highly sought after development shop

Is this engine your building. Still happening?
 

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Discussion Starter #387
Got the blower off today and the rotors out. Boxing it up tomorrow and sending it on its way to WCCH. Once it returns, I'm port matching the runners and removing some material from the injector bosses as well as a few other places. Looking forward to seeing the case come back from WCCH.
 

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Discussion Starter #389 (Edited)
Thanks John, I keep busy that's for sure.

New PNR trunk tank will be here on Wednesday! Can't wait to get that bad boy installed and the Rule2000 wired up. Should be a nice clean install with the EMP up front (where I like it).

Both mine and my buddies blowers are pulled and disassembled. Boxing up tomorrow and getting them in the mail. Probably going to have WCCH do the runners as well......After looking in there, I don't think I want to do all that port work. It seems like a lot.

Still waiting on the new snout to ship. The builder wants the inside to be smooth and is worried about the casting being rough. It was explained that the rough casting is not that big of a deal. I hope he gets the snouts to us in the next two weeks, that way I can get the car on the road as soon as the blower case comes back from WCCH.

I need to order a stainless 2.35 upper still, just waiting on the maker of the new snout to let me know what hub is on the damn thing....LPE or ZPE.
 
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Discussion Starter #391
Jason,

the new hub will be a ZPE
Fantastic!

Tom, are you going to run the stainless 2.35 upper? or save $$$ and run the aluminum 2.38 and just file down the new snout once it arrives? I'm torn between the two. I like the idea of the stainless 2.35, but the $220 price tag for a pulley is insane. Not like the aluminum ones are much cheaper ($160 I believe).

Back to the build.....

Got the new PNR Welding trunk tank. I had a 5g installed but wanted a bigger lid for ice and an internal tank, so I sold the 5g and got this 8g with the 8" lid. It also has the Rule 2000 pump installed to help keep things going. The EMP pump is picky about cavitation and occasionally cavitated on hard left turns....remember, if you aint first, you're last!

Since the Rule pump requires a 15amp circuit, 30amp waterproof Bosch relay it is. I'll use an inline 15amp fuse on the power wire for the Rule pump. Should be fine since the pumps draw less than 9 amps.

Some glory shots of the PNR welding trunk tank half way finished with the install. I still have to plumb the drain and drill a hole in the trunk for the outlet. I plan on using a rubber grommet to seal the drain....don't want water and dangerous combustion gasses creeping up in the cabin during late night shenanigans.

145507

145508

145509
 

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Discussion Starter #392
Just swapped out the rear springs for Eibach lowering springs. The car had all stock springs, but with the iron block, the front end received a free lowering courtesy of the earth's gravity. The rear however, remained the same. Now that it's lowered in the rear, the match is great. Need to get some miles on it to see how it settles in. Job took about 45 min to swap out both rear coils.

Still waiting on the new snout to arrive and my blower case is expected to arrive at WCCH tomorrow. I messaged them on porting runners, waiting on the reply on their cost and what kind of work is done. I'd like to have the runners opened up as much has possible. Worst case scenario, I'll port match the outlet of the runners and round the injector bosses.

For a good laugh.....picture me forgetting the blower is off....fuel lines disconnected.....IC lines off and I key on the ignition.

That happened today. My garage smells like E/85 and glycol.
 

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That will be some good floor cleaner for the garage!

That new tank looks sweet!
 

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Discussion Starter #394
That will be some good floor cleaner for the garage!

That new tank looks sweet!
Oh it was....EMP pump with 1" lines moved about 2 gallons in 10 seconds.....and a decent amount of E/85....none went in the runners (thank god).

Done with relay. Now the Rule2000 has key on fused dedicated circuit.
145574


And the rear end lowered.....garage photos for now...car is a paper weight currently.

145575

145576
 

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Just a thought, with the extra weight on the nose and the stiffer springs in the rear there may be a change in the balance while cornering. I didn't see adjustable anti-roll bars in your signature, but it would be a good time to increase the front roll stiffness.
 

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Discussion Starter #396
Just a thought, with the extra weight on the nose and the stiffer springs in the rear there may be a change in the balance while cornering. I didn't see adjustable anti-roll bars in your signature, but it would be a good time to increase the front roll stiffness.
Haven't thought about this. You're probably right...I'll look into a stronger front sway bar once I get the car on the road and have the time to play with it. I really just have to get a feel for it. Thanks for the ideas though, I appreciate it.

Moving back to the trunk tank:

it's all wrapped up! Excuse the wires, that's the battery charger.

145642


Also finished the drain.

145643
 
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Discussion Starter #397
Pics coming tomorrow! The blower case is back from WCCH and the prototype snout is here. I got the two port matched and am almost finished with the runner to head match porting.....let me tell ya....I have a lot of respect for businesses that hand port these things....damn. Metal shaving hurt, bad. Also, it's a lot of work, even with quality cutting bits. Pulled out the old needle bearings and pressed in new. Should be GTG.

I've got the the blower port matched, now i'm just sanding to make it look pretty. Will set the blower on the car and see how close I got the matching....if need be, i'll remove it and apply some finishing touches.

Again, lots of pics will be coming tomorrow, it's my daughters birthday today and I'm not working on the car today. Also, bought a 2.35 pulley for all the blower RPMs. Pretty excited to see boost levels after the porting and pulley. It also goes without saying, I can't wait to see the power gain from the aftermarket snout, WCCH CNC case, hand ported runners, and smaller pulley. Looking to break 800WPH with this setup on pump E85!

I had to pull the plugs and check gap....believe it or not, i forgot to gap the new plugs and also took the time to pull them out and gap to .032.
 

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Discussion Starter #398
Blower put back together.

145901
145902


145900
 
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Discussion Starter #399
Port matched to FED Stg2 Heads.

145903
 

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Discussion Starter #400
Well for one reason or another, the new snout doesn't clear the PCV line in the stock valley cover (even though this issue was checked in the 3D printed models). I ordered the LSX valley cover that does not have the PCV port, but does have the provision for the oil pressure sensor port in the back. I've been without my V for a month now, so I paid the $25 for next day air shipping from Summit.....I'll have the valley cover Tuesday.

On a side note, this also gives me time to build the new steam vent system for the front ports.....I hate the two factory lines and I'm going to run them together and into the return to the overflow tank rather than one running over the throttle body and the other over the intake. Might even run all of them together (they all merge anyway before they go into the surge tank) and then to the tank, but keep the line by the firewall. I'll play around with it a bit and see what I like.

Couple things I'm waiting on: Griptech 2.35" pulley and whatever belt I need for that combo (won't be the combo I run for weekend driving, that will be 2.5/9.5)
 
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