[MrSurly]

not to beat you up but no way would I have left the shop with that, that was dangerous
I think:

2008-2014 Cadillac CTS Front Engine Cradle 20911365 | GMPartsDirect.com

2008-2014 Cadillac CTS part # 20911365 - Front Engine Cradle

www.gmpartsdirect.com

To be fair, there’s no way at all that he could have SEEN the the lack of penetration without having the car on a lift and very thoroughly examining it. The shop likely just gave him
the fob and said “you’re good, it’s parked over there”

 

[SofaKingSlow]

If you do consider used parts, car-part.com has them listed across the country. The highest priced one was $600.

 

[MrSurly]

If that were a V cradle, I would pay shipping to get it, just to practice a repair on....

 

[RobF300]

To be fair, there’s no way at all that he could have SEEN the the lack of penetration without having the car on a lift and very thoroughly examining it. The shop likely just gave him
the fob and said “you’re good, it’s parked over there”

I would tend to agree with you but unless im not reading this right it seems he had seen it before the car went back together and questioned it, even has a picture of it:

SO..... the weld didn't hold up on the test drive. I am currently fighting with the shop owner, (who I like and have had work done there before) about why his weld tech removed so much material and I can plainly see the crack pattern before they put it back together..

View attachment 164215

2012 CTS Wagon, Premium, RWD, 3.6L, VIN #1G6DP8E39C0115024.having a little difficulty finding the correct part.

I told them that you can clearly see the crack after they dressed it and they should have stopped there.

I wouldnt bother with a used cradle, too much labor involved in swapping it out to bother saving a few dollars on the part

 

[cynot]

not to beat you up but no way would I have left the shop with that, that was dangerous
I think:

2008-2014 Cadillac CTS Front Engine Cradle 20911365 | GMPartsDirect.com

2008-2014 Cadillac CTS part # 20911365 - Front Engine Cradle

www.gmpartsdirect.com

It's still there. They have to make it right.

I would tend to agree with you but unless im not reading this right it seems he had seen it before the car went back together and questioned it, even has a picture of it:

They took the picture of it before it went together. I'm shocked that he still put it together after seeing the crack in the dressed area. If you look at the before and after photos, the broken tab has the exact outline of the crack in the before photo.



I wouldnt bother with a used cradle, too much labor involved in swapping it out to bother saving a few dollars on the part

They just called and located a used Cradle for $250 plus $300 for the install. I feel like I'm being nickel and dime to death. I found a new Cradle for$1050 plus $300 shipping.

 

[RobF300]

It's still there. They have to make it right.



They just called and located a used Cradle for $250 plus $300 for the install. I feel like I'm being nickel and dime to death. I found a new Cradle for$1050 plus $300 shipping.

$300 installation? I guess its a lot simpler than I imagined?
a local dealer should be able to get you the cradle less shipping charges, and if you know someone who can help out with a shop discount it should cost you less

 

[random84]

It's still there. They have to make it right.



They just called and located a used Cradle for $250 plus $300 for the install. I feel like I'm being nickel and dime to death. I found a new Cradle for$1050 plus $300 shipping.

I think I'd haggle: take the used cradle, but inspect it on delivery BEFORE installation - and have them eat installation for that ass-cringing "welding" they tried to dupe you with first. There are huge safety and ethical issues with that, in addition to the welder clearly not being experienced enough to work on aluminum structures for road-worthy vehicles.

In other words, bitch a little and point out the obvious. But that's a good price on a used subframe, so I figure if it was used and driven and didn't crack - it's probably good to go!

 

[MrSurly]

I would not be fearful of a used cradle, assuming proper inspection. Every part, on every car...is used

 

[RobF300]

wonder if there's anything that can be done to the cradle before its installed to strengthen it?

 

[MrSurly]

wonder if there's anything that can be done to the cradle before its installed to strengthen it?

According to the “welding is bad” crowd, no. There’s not a thing that you can do.
Unless you have a large heat treating oven handy.

 

[cynot]

All good points. First, $300 is cheap to install. I still haven't paid them for the struts and upper & lower control arm install. I think that's the shops attempt to soften the blow from the abortion of a weld job. Next, I checked with several dealerships and there is 1, that's right, one available in the U.S. The parts guy at my local dealership said even if he was able to put in the order ($2076) and get it from the Dealer in Tennessee, GM would probably cancel the order in case they need it. I don't quite understand that one. Lastly, I informed the shop that I will be inspecting the cradle before the install and I've reached out to a local fabricator that I know, to see about adding some strength to those areas. The proper part number for my application is:
20911365. Hoping to be up and running by Saturday.

mobilemanfabrication.com

 

[MrSurly]

For my two cents view: in your case, with a V6 and assuming a daily driver usage, I would inspect the used cradle and finding no cracks, I would forget trying to beef it up and possibly create some other issue. Have it installed, move on.
The odds are that the same car will not ever crack another one. A good used cradle, put it in and lose no more sleep over this chapter.

 

[RocketSled]

According to the “welding is bad” crowd, no. There’s not a thing that you can do.

Welding is far from ideal *if a crack has already developed". Bad job as illustrated in this case notwithstanding. But if you have a cradle and it's not cracked, having a competent welder build up a fillet along the lines where we're seeing the flange crack would definitely add some strength.

 

[MrSurly]

Welding is far from ideal *if a crack has already developed". Bad job as illustrated in this case notwithstanding. But if you have a cradle and it's not cracked, having a competent welder build up a fillet along the lines where we're seeing the flange crack would definitely add some strength.

Personally, I agree (I've expounded on the subject previously) but the Welding-is-bad crowd argues tensile strength omg-omg-omg as if TS were the sole critical metric, disregarding ductility, cross section, mass and others. They say that welding on an un-cracked cradle in order to build up material and relieve stress points is a disaster, because of again loss of TS. As if annealing the casting results in Play-Doh.

 

[cynot]

I think if it's not cracked, just install and go. I've already lost too much sleep over it. In the aviation world we just say "send it"!

 

[RobF300]

you have to think any GM subframe with similar construction is prone to the same cracking. as evident by this RWD 6cyl example

 

[MeanMike]

I've never looked at my k-member so it could be cracked and could be fine (schrodingers k-member).

Seems like someone (maybe me) should build a k-member. Sadly, the customer base is relatively small (compared to f-bodies and mustangs) and the k member is a bit big and require a lot of material and bracket. If I remember right Pure Fabrication was ~$1500 after all the options and still didn't have sway bar mounts. A local guy has one and doesn't have any complaints. But they aren't available anymore.

This would be a good opportunity to remedy the stockers shortcomings. Shimmable motor mount bosses to lower the engine. There is definitely room for improvement with the lower control arm alignment setup, slugs or adjusters instead of a slot. And of course a material that won't crack.

 

[Heavymetals]

This reminds me of the replacement diff housing project for the 04-07 V's.
There was a guy who had one fabbed out of tool steel, I think he had a CNC program do it.
If I recall there is only one in existence, his.

Just grinding away all that material (OEM) really bothers me. Is there that much of a clearance problem?
Just breaking through the surface weakens the structure.

 

[cynot]

you have to think any GM subframe with similar construction is prone to the same cracking. as evident by this RWD 6cyl example

You may be right. I believe it's the same motor as the RS Camaro.

 

[V_Wagon]

I've never looked at my k-member so it could be cracked and could be fine (schrodingers k-member).

Seems like someone (maybe me) should build a k-member. Sadly, the customer base is relatively small (compared to f-bodies and mustangs) and the k member is a bit big and require a lot of material and bracket. If I remember right Pure Fabrication was ~$1500 after all the options and still didn't have sway bar mounts. A local guy has one and doesn't have any complaints. But they aren't available anymore.

This would be a good opportunity to remedy the stockers shortcomings. Shimmable motor mount bosses to lower the engine. There is definitely room for improvement with the lower control arm alignment setup, slugs or adjusters instead of a slot. And of course a material that won't crack.

Get to work on a design for us Mike that included a sway bar mount!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk