Cadillac CTS-V Forum banner

81 - 100 of 102 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
242 Posts
Student loan debt is reality and also need to consider earning potential after graduation.

$80k debt as a liberal arts major..... bad idea.

$80k debt +$160k debt and a lawyer, much more understandable and manageable.


Or just start a roofing company......
Exactly! I should have qualified my position on the debt - if your kid is going into debt for a potential lucrative career, maybe it works.

If your kid is going into debt for a Gender Studies degree, you've already failed as a parent.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,454 Posts
I’m heading to houghton Michigan for my youngest kids graduation. My daughter graduated from Michigan 3 years ago and now they are both off the family payroll. My kids were responsible for paying half their way although I offered to pick up their portion as well for each semester with a gpa>3.5. They graduated cum laude and Summa cum laude with engineering degrees and no debt. My goal was no boomerangs and it worked. Good luck to your son. And btw it snowed yesterday in houghton.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
14,891 Posts
I think minimizing debt is one priority in this situation, but not the only one. Maintaining a good relationship with your kid (now a legal adult) is a very high priority, and telling him he 'cannot' go to his dream school that he got accepted into on his own merits, is not going to help that relationship.

Offering guidance but letting him make the ultimate decision is a good call here, I think. I was lucky in that my kid only seriously considered schools within an hour of our home, so I didn't have to deal with trying to guide him and ultimately letting him make what I might think is a bad decision. Parenting ain't easy even as they get to adult ages...
Maintaining a good relationship with one's child started Looooong before he/she got around to picking a school. But of course my point was not to debate parenting styles nor speculate on his child's emotional state regarding the decision; and frankly as a young adult I think the kid will deal with it just fine. I only respond because you bring it up, and frankly it's a nonsensical argument IMHO: If your relationship with your child hinges on them getting into their favorite school, then you'd probably failed as a parent for the 18 years that led up to this moment, or the kid has other issues that still won't be solved by them getting their way.

Again, my point was: as a parent who is now becoming more of an "adviser" to the young adult, explaining to them what the debt burden will be over many years of their lives is a very REAL problem, and one that benefits the child directly (but is often overlooked).

I once did the math on taking the national average income of my profession, versus that of a trade (plumber, electrician, etc) and factored in apprenticeship and school debt. School = debt for most of us. But anyway, I plotted an average of the Trade's salary starting after high school against my increasing negative net worth as I borrowed through 4 years of undergrad - where I worked as an RA to offset costs at a cheap in-state school - as well as another 4 years of grad school and living expenses, and a residency versus that Trade job who started making real money a year or two after high school, and had zero debt.

Not counting bigger houses or faster cars that come along with "doctors living a doctor lifestyle," which again means even more debt; my rough calculations on total net worth means I caught up to the Trades job at... age 45-50. And almost all of that had to do with my having to borrow $200k to get through grad-school.

But YMMV based on locale, profession, hours worked, and your individual abilities, etc. Again, my point is that an 18 year old has no fucking idea why one school is "better" than another, other than reputation and a day or two of looking at the girls on campus. Maybe a good friend is going to one school or whatever; but that debt... that debt is no joke and it should be very seriously considered and explained. Although I make exceptions for really top-tier schools and professions where "pedigree" is everything - Law might be one of those - in general where I went to school or my overall GPA has had precious little to do with my employment and income over the past 15 years. In my case, it would have been the difference between $1,000 a month in loan payments versus $500. That's monthly rent for a lot of people.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
242 Posts
Maintaining a good relationship with one's child started Looooong before he/she got around to picking a school. But of course my point was not to debate parenting styles nor speculate on his child's emotional state regarding the decision; and frankly as a young adult I think the kid will deal with it just fine. I only respond because you bring it up, and frankly it's a nonsensical argument IMHO: If your relationship with your child hinges on them getting into their favorite school, then you'd probably failed as a parent for the 18 years that led up to this moment, or the kid has other issues that still won't be solved by them getting their way.

Again, my point was: as a parent who is now becoming more of an "adviser" to the young adult, explaining to them what the debt burden will be over many years of their lives is a very REAL problem, and one that benefits the child directly (but is often overlooked).

I once did the math on taking the national average income of my profession, versus that of a trade (plumber, electrician, etc) and factored in apprenticeship and school debt. School = debt for most of us. But anyway, I plotted an average of the Trade's salary starting after high school against my increasing negative net worth as I borrowed through 4 years of undergrad - where I worked as an RA to offset costs at a cheap in-state school - as well as another 4 years of grad school and living expenses, and a residency versus that Trade job who started making real money a year or two after high school, and had zero debt.

Not counting bigger houses or faster cars that come along with "doctors living a doctor lifestyle," which again means even more debt; my rough calculations on total net worth means I caught up to the Trades job at... age 45-50. And almost all of that had to do with my having to borrow $200k to get through grad-school.

But YMMV based on locale, profession, hours worked, and your individual abilities, etc. Again, my point is that an 18 year old has no fucking idea why one school is "better" than another, other than reputation and a day or two of looking at the girls on campus. Maybe a good friend is going to one school or whatever; but that debt... that debt is no joke and it should be very seriously considered and explained. Although I make exceptions for really top-tier schools and professions where "pedigree" is everything - Law might be one of those - in general where I went to school or my overall GPA has had precious little to do with my employment and income over the past 15 years. In my case, it would have been the difference between $1,000 a month in loan payments versus $500. That's monthly rent for a lot of people.
Your point on explaining the debt scenario in great detail while advising your kid about school choices is exactly correct.

My point was that letting the 'kid' ultimately make their decision after being properly counseled on the options is critical to maintaining a good relationship (which of course assumes you've been making moves in that direction for 18 years as a parent).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
232 Posts
I truly believe in self-determination.

He’s 18, and while I can have a ton of influence on him, I want the decision to be his.

In all honestly, I had a hard time with my wife urging him to stay closer, but I didn’t say anything about it to him, or really to her.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Congrats, you've obviously raised a great young man!

I have three degrees and minimized the cost of each. If your son is going to get a J.D., then he will probably find that all that matters to a potential employer (law firm) is where he went to law school and how well he did there and on the bar exam. Has he considered staying home and going to a local school for 2 years and then transferring to Univ. of Chicago?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
20,804 Posts
Discussion Starter #86
Congrats, you've obviously raised a great young man!

I have three degrees and minimized the cost of each. If your son is going to get a J.D., then he will probably find that all that matters to a potential employer (law firm) is where he went to law school and how well he did there and on the bar exam. Has he considered staying home and going to a local school for 2 years and then transferring to Univ. of Chicago?
Thank you.

I have talked to him, in depth, about the debt and aspirations, and the what-if he hits a snag, like not getting a clerkship or something.

Truth be told, it seems like he’ll owe maybe $80k, after four years.

He could sell his car for about $20k and not have to pay insurance and have more depreciation while it mostly sits for four years.

He can do summer internships, apparently UC Higago is very good and connected with these, and he says he wants to work on campus, though we are discouraging that.

Truth be told, he has a custodial account that could mostly cover the debt, if need be, though our desire is for him to ultimately use that to get into a home once he is in his career and perhaps the next phase of his life.

My hope is I am actually in a position to help him such that he won’t have pay that loan, that he will just worry about the law school debt.

We had a discussion about law schools, and he told me the top tier and second tier, the costs, and what separates them.

He said the only true top tier one on the west coast is Stanford, and we discussed more about career objectives.

He studies past Supreme Court cases and decisions for fun. He got top attorney(out of 144) last week in a Moot Court competition at Princeton, and the way he not only remembers, but in such detail, anything he reads, is simply amazing.

I am not impressed by a lot of people, and I also know he’s my kid, but once in a while there’s someone that just seems to have a bit extra.

He’s not without faults or flaws, he has his weaknesses, but we each try to help him in our way.

I went to a local state school, my wife went to a private school an hour from home.

We both realized the shortcomings, especially me as I commuted and didn’t have the truly immersive college experience. Most at my college commuted, so it wasn’t like the experience you think of (Animal House...j/k).

We live very close to a very highly rated public university, and ever since we moved here when he was 18 months old, he understood he wouldn’t attend it, as it’s too close.

We want him to study hard and really learn about himself and meet others and build relationships. I want college to be fun, exciting, rewarding, challenging, and intense, for him.

I want him to grow up, to gain confidence, to push his limits.

As to the comment about stay local and then transfer.

He kept saying he can’t turn down Chicago and then transfer in.

Truth be told, he is taking his AP exams the next two weeks. He has six of them, which will bring his total to 13. He’s gotten all 4’s and 5’s, except he might have gotten a 3 in Music Theory or something like that.

He would go to Berkeley as a sophomore, or UC San Diego he could start as a junior, amazingly.

I have told him I don’t want him finishing early, use those AP course credits to allow yourself to take non-required courses in things that interest you, like philosophy and whatever else.

Heck, he’s taking Latin via BYU online for the heck of it.

My softball teammate is Vice Dean at UCLA law school, so I may need to hit him up at some time for advise or perhaps help, but again, my son got where he is entirely on his merits, he didn’t even take college exam prep courses.

I did offer to drive him to Chicago in September, both to take his stuff and spend time with him, plus he likes road trips, so we’ll see.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
232 Posts
Thank you.

I have talked to him, in depth, about the debt and aspirations, and the what-if he hits a snag, like not getting a clerkship or something.

Truth be told, it seems like he’ll owe maybe $80k, after four years.

He could sell his car for about $20k and not have to pay insurance and have more depreciation while it mostly sits for four years.

He can do summer internships, apparently UC Higago is very good and connected with these, and he says he wants to work on campus, though we are discouraging that.

Truth be told, he has a custodial account that could mostly cover the debt, if need be, though our desire is for him to ultimately use that to get into a home once he is in his career and perhaps the next phase of his life.

My hope is I am actually in a position to help him such that he won’t have pay that loan, that he will just worry about the law school debt.

We had a discussion about law schools, and he told me the top tier and second tier, the costs, and what separates them.

He said the only true top tier one on the west coast is Stanford, and we discussed more about career objectives.

He studies past Supreme Court cases and decisions for fun. He got top attorney(out of 144) last week in a Moot Court competition at Princeton, and the way he not only remembers, but in such detail, anything he reads, is simply amazing.

I am not impressed by a lot of people, and I also know he’s my kid, but once in a while there’s someone that just seems to have a bit extra.

He’s not without faults or flaws, he has his weaknesses, but we each try to help him in our way.

I went to a local state school, my wife went to a private school an hour from home.

We both realized the shortcomings, especially me as I commuted and didn’t have the truly immersive college experience. Most at my college commuted, so it wasn’t like the experience you think of (Animal House...j/k).

We live very close to a very highly rated public university, and ever since we moved here when he was 18 months old, he understood he wouldn’t attend it, as it’s too close.

We want him to study hard and really learn about himself and meet others and build relationships. I want college to be fun, exciting, rewarding, challenging, and intense, for him.

I want him to grow up, to gain confidence, to push his limits.

As to the comment about stay local and then transfer.

He kept saying he can’t turn down Chicago and then transfer in.

Truth be told, he is taking his AP exams the next two weeks. He has six of them, which will bring his total to 13. He’s gotten all 4’s and 5’s, except he might have gotten a 3 in Music Theory or something like that.

He would go to Berkeley as a sophomore, or UC San Diego he could start as a junior, amazingly.

I have told him I don’t want him finishing early, use those AP course credits to allow yourself to take non-required courses in things that interest you, like philosophy and whatever else.

Heck, he’s taking Latin via BYU online for the heck of it.

My softball teammate is Vice Dean at UCLA law school, so I may need to hit him up at some time for advise or perhaps help, but again, my son got where he is entirely on his merits, he didn’t even take college exam prep courses.

I did offer to drive him to Chicago in September, both to take his stuff and spend time with him, plus he likes road trips, so we’ll see.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You're an awesome Dad!

Yep, I was thinking UCLA undergrad and Stanford law school. A strong LSAT and UCLA GPA would probably make that path a reality.

Your son is correct, besides Stanford, the other top tiers are east bound. Harvard, Yale, and Chicago are great programs.

It's blatantly apparent, you're doing better than 99%+ of all Dad's and I can't add anything of value.

Again, my strong compliments, you're a great Dad!
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
20,804 Posts
Discussion Starter #88
Ha. I wish. Thanks for the compliments, though.

He mentioned Columbia as one as well.

I asked him a year ago what is his dream job (I believe you should have lofty aspirations so you are always able to stretch a little more to keep things interesting) and he said Justice.

I paused for a moment. I said:

“Why not Chief Justice?”

He just smiled.

He’s very humble, always helping other students with their classwork, often through the high school’s tutoring center.

He’s the bright spot for me, as you can probably tell.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
232 Posts
He mentioned Columbia as one as well.
I agree, Columbia has excellent JD and MBA programs.

Karch said:
I believe you should have lofty aspirations so you are always able to stretch a little more to keep things interesting....
Strongly agree! I earned an MBA and, IMO, it's amazing how many MBA graduates, from the Top 3 schools, have weak financial skills. In the end, it's all about knowledge, not grades, and how the knowledge makes lofty aspirations obtainable. Most Harvard MBAs never double their starting salary, adjusted for inflation. OTOH, some, with lofty aspirations, earn very substantial incomes and change many lives (hopefully, for the better).
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
14,891 Posts
It's blatantly apparent, you're doing better than 99%+ of all Dad's and I can't add anything of value.

Again, my strong compliments, you're a great Dad!
Yup - I got nothin' either.

 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
20,804 Posts
Discussion Starter #93
I mentioned him having his first beer and his reaction was is it some type of rite of passage? He’s not interested.

His mom even popped off about how some fathers get their son’s a hooker for their 18th or 21st birthday.

Who asked her to speak? (Inside joke)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
242 Posts
Quick update.

Got a nice email today from a VP at my company letting me know my son was awarded a scholarship, I think it’s $2500/yr x four years
Every dollar helps! My son has pulled in about $8k/year in academic scholarships so far at Michigan State, which makes me love that school even more.

Then last week we got a letter (totally unexpected) that he was getting a $1,300 scholarship from the Engineering school via the Wilbur Wright Endowment (brother of Orville).

Had no idea the Wright family had any connection to Michigan State, but hey, thanks for the new laptop, Wilbur!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
242 Posts
I mentioned him having his first beer and his reaction was is it some type of rite of passage? He’s not interested. ...
Funny, my boy is the same. Has no interest in drinking & drugs, very much unlike his father at his age :cool:

I'm very curious to see if that changes once he's on campus.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
242 Posts
Moved my oldest son into his dorm at Michigan State yesterday. My wife and I moved onto that campus in 1989 (we met our Junior year, been together ever since).

So many feels. Happy and excited for him. Floods of memories of his childhood keep hitting me (is it dusty in here? allergy season? eyes keep watering for some reason).

Then my own memories from 30 years ago as a student start flowing in randomly. Parenthood is crazy, but this experience ranks up with the craziest yet.

Best of luck to all you parents and your new college kids this fall!
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
20,804 Posts
Discussion Starter #97
My son is about three weeks away from moving in.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
912 Posts
Karch, if anything happens and you need help I’m about 4 hours away not counting traffic. I’m heading back home on 9/4.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
20,804 Posts
Discussion Starter #99
Karch, if anything happens and you need help I’m about 4 hours away not counting traffic. I’m heading back home on 9/4.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thank you very much, I really appreciate it! I’ll be out there in October for parents weekend, might even stay a little longer, so I’m hoping to go to a World Series game somewhere, fingers crossed.

Thank you again.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
81 - 100 of 102 Posts
Top