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Nothing like the power to weigh ratio of a spoiled up econobox. That being said the power band, torque, boost by gear control, and budget necessary to make a civic fast is why most look so rough. Good kill Mr surely, even if the covid did bring a steak knife to a RPG fight.
 
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Discussion Starter · #1,703 ·
Finally getting the GForce axles bolted into the car.
While at it, I tweaked the angle on the parking brake cable brackets so that I can sneak the cables under the sway bar and hopefully have them no longer rub the wheels. The DRs are brand new but one of them is a bit out of round and a lot out of balance. Gets pretty shaky at 100. It needs too many ounces of lead and that sucks a lot.
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I’ve had great luck with these balancing beads over the years in semi and pickup tires. Could be worth a shot

 

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Discussion Starter · #1,707 ·
I don’t yet know the cause but I’ve got a bad vibe at speed. Yes, the out of round tire is probably it.
I have installed new everything under this car and it shakes like mad above 80.
I’ve been driving today as a shakedown and I did do a better 60-130 but it was on a ‘chip seal’ county road with typical lack of traction. With DRs on, TC off, I was able to literally spin in every gear. after several attempts my best result was NOT WOT but about 7/8 throttle or in other words, dancing on the limit of traction and the run was a 5.26.
I agree with you that it likely SHOULD get into the fours if I can stop spinning and also quit trying to use No-Lift-Shift, which I tried for the first time, today.
I’m NOT doing the timing of NLS properly, apparently.

Also… for the record, the 5.94 60-130 time from previous was with TC ON.
 

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For my MT DR, I they required road force balanced. I was told it was a challenge, tire had to be moved around on the wheels to get them right. Ended up at a Audi dealer as they were the only ones in the area with a machine who would do walk in customers. The Volvo and BMW dealers would not touch unless mounted on their car.
 

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Discussion Starter · #1,709 ·
I doubt that any type of balancing is going help at the tire is visibly out-of-round.
Also, I am running beadlock rims and you’re not likely to find even a tire dealer who will touch em.
I DO have a friendly local tire guy who will balance them and he spent some time trying to get this to work, but can’t fix the shape issue.
 

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Move the tire 180* the. Try again. If its still way off return that tire
Mr Surly. I think you missed this ^.

Try breaking the tire off the bead and rotate it 180. Be very methodical about bolting the beadlock ring on evenly. It’s easy to get it offset on the beadlock side and make it out of round. It won’t ever ride perfect, but it shouldn’t be 10oz out.

Road force balancing a drag radial is a waste. Get a cheap bubble balancer from harbor freight and you’ll get it close enough.
 
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I had slightly similar issue immediately after I installed my Billet Specialties drag packs. The wheels shook so bad at about 50mph that it damaged the front lower control arm bushings, and yes, I had to replace them, that sucked! Turns out the front and rear wheel hub on the BS's is larger than the hub pilot on all 4 corners of the car, and who KNEW this can be an issue?? Well I didn't dammit! Hub-centric rings were required to take up the space and once I sourced the right size and installed them, the car has been 129.8mph in the quarter multiple times and smooth as glass!

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If the lug nuts are a tapered seat, the wheel is lug centric and not hub centric, so a hub centering ring should not make a difference as long as the wheel is installed and proper star pattern torque sequence is followed in stages. I've run into balance problems before on road course cars with slicks and rings never solved anything, just adding my two cents on my experience, I've no idea why they worked so well in that scenario unless the wheel was somehow getting torqued down oddly? Hmm...
 

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If the lug nuts are a tapered seat, the wheel is lug centric and not hub centric, so a hub centering ring should not make a difference as long as the wheel is installed and proper star pattern torque sequence is followed in stages. I've run into balance problems before on road course cars with slicks and rings never solved anything, just adding my two cents on my experience, I've no idea why they worked so well in that scenario unless the wheel was somehow getting torqued down oddly? Hmm...
Tapered seat lugs torqued correctly and re-torqued at the time of occurrence, no change. The factory wheels are hub centric with tapered seat lugs, so there's that. Just passing along my experiences helpful or not. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #1,716 ·
Mr Surly. I think you missed this ^.

Try breaking the tire off the bead and rotate it 180. Be very methodical about bolting the beadlock ring on evenly. It’s easy to get it offset on the beadlock side and make it out of round. It won’t ever ride perfect, but it shouldn’t be 10oz out.

Road force balancing a drag radial is a waste. Get a cheap bubble balancer from harbor freight and you’ll get it close enough.
Didn’t miss it. I’m going to try similar asap to see if I can affect the roundness. It would not likely change the out of balance, just relocate the weights, I’ll assume. However, IF remounting successfully allows the tire to be ROUND, that could affect the vibration and possibly the balance(?)
I was ridiculously meticulous installing the beadlock ring and torquing it AND the lugs.
One thing I might guess is is that somehow, after booting up the beadlock ring, and then airing it up to seat the rear bead… that it got twisted somehow????
My first thought is to remove the bead lock ring, relaxing the face of the tire while leaving the back bead fully seated then reinstalling the ring and see if it becomes round.
If not, then remove the tire completely, clean the rear seat (I had applied ‘sticky tack’ to the rear bead), apply a little tire soap to lube the inner a bit and reinstall 180 out.

I had slightly similar issue immediately after I installed my Billet Specialties drag packs. The wheels shook so bad at about 50mph that it damaged the front lower control arm bushings, and yes, I had to replace them, that sucked! Turns out the front and rear wheel hub on the BS's is larger than the hub pilot on all 4 corners of the car, and who KNEW this can be an issue?? Well I didn't dammit! Hub-centric rings were required to take up the space and once I sourced the right size and installed them, the car has been 129.8mph in the quarter multiple times and smooth as glass!

View attachment 164331

View attachment 164332
I don’t believe this is the issue, however if it IS… you have the exact rings I would need! Please send them along post haste!

If the lug nuts are a tapered seat, the wheel is lug centric and not hub centric, so a hub centering ring should not make a difference as long as the wheel is installed and proper star pattern torque sequence is followed in stages. I've run into balance problems before on road course cars with slicks and rings never solved anything, just adding my two cents on my experience, I've no idea why they worked so well in that scenario unless the wheel was somehow getting torqued down oddly? Hmm...
I tend to agree with your thinking HOWEVER Ill
gladly try anything.
These Race Stars use a tapered ‘bulge’ seat nut and their bore is 78mm. If I had a quick source I would damned sure put ‘em in there.

All this effort and trial and thought process is trying to get ready to roll out Wed afternoon for the race but so many things seem aligned to shut mt down.

Add to the tire and vibe issue that at the moment Im
at the doctor trying to get what I think is strep throat under control.
I’m reminded as we all sometimes are….. when you can’t breathe, all this other shit doesn’t matter.

So, where can I find the rings? I’ll try them if I can get them, but they won’t fix out-of-round, I have to try some things above for that, or try to find a tire, possibly on the way?
 

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I agree with the try all avenues approach sometimes as well. The bulge type seat I think doesn't self center as well as a straight taper so it's definitely worth a try since they're cheap.

The only source fast enough to get them within your timeframe I think would be Amazon Prime. Or maybe see if a set could be shipped to the track as a last ditch effort?
 

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Discussion Starter · #1,718 ·
While waiting on the doc I ordered hub centric rings from Summit (Dallas) which should arrive tomorrow.
I’m gonna try remounting the tire with a goal of getting it round. If that works… I’ll pursue rebalancing.
I wish I HAD a bubble-balancer!
As a kid I used to be the tire guy at a Western Auto…. so very long ago.
 

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One-Piece Driveshaft:
The slope of the transmission output shaft and pinion shaft should be in the same direction. They should also be within ½° of each other to avoid driveline vibration.

Most driveline companies recommend operating angles of 3° or less for maximum u-joint life. There should be a minimum of ½° to allow the needles to rotate. The higher the operating angle, the more likely your vehicle will develop a vibration at high driveshaft speeds. The lower the angle, the lower the chance of vibration at high driveshaft speeds.

Might need to shim the rear transmission support mount?
 

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While waiting on the doc I ordered hub centric rings from Summit (Dallas) which should arrive tomorrow.
I’m gonna try remounting the tire with a goal of getting it round. If that works… I’ll pursue rebalancing.
I wish I HAD a bubble-balancer!
As a kid I used to be the tire guy at a Western Auto…. so very long ago.
i had a tyre not seated properly and i couldnt tell at all when driving (was rear rhs ) but soon as i went on dyno (rolling dyno) it shook the whole car so bad it couldnt do a proper run
 
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