[Hotsoss]

What happened:
I suffered a collapsed lifter about 200 miles past my last build in October 2021 probably due to a failing cam bearing. I'm not sure if this failure was due to possible install error for my new cam and heads or just plain bad luck and there was an underlying issue all along prior to my last round of mods. Whatever the case maybe I decided to rebuild using another performance shop over the last several months.

Fortunately for me the 416 crank and block could be reused and was still in good shape. The crank was re-polished and the block was bored and honed. The engine builder also replaced all the bearings (main, cam and rod) and installed new LS2K Diamond racing pistons with 9.5 Compression ratio 4.080 bore -18cc.

Unfortunately for me the brand new custom stroker cam I bought from GP tuning was damaged on one of the lobes from the failed lifter, so I had to procure that same cam again from him. I also had to buy a new set of lifters and this time I decided to go with Johnson 2116r lifters (previously had 2110r lifters). In addition, I had to buy another brand new 10355 replacement pump due to any metal that might still be in my old pump.

What's new:
Since the engine had to be rebuilt, I had my new shop contact LME and they said this engine is good for 1000whp, but recommended I stay under that number for longevity and durability.

So with that news I decided to make the following changes:

• I increased my 2650 pulley combo from 3.0/8.6 to 2.625/8.6
• Added an Alky Meth kit w/3 gallon in trunk tank
• New motor mounts
• Get the Holley Hydramats I previously purchased for the Fore kit installed (was never installed on my last build even though they were provided)
• Use Derek Dunbar as my tuner going forward

Goals:
I was pretty happy with the power my car had, but I wasn’t happy with the way my car shifted during normal driving during the short time I had it. This time around I just hope the car operates and shifts/drives/starts smoothly and that I will have a safe (not to aggressive) tune.

My previous build made 889whp and 783wtq on E and 813whp and 715wtq on 93.

I hope with addition of a smaller upper pulley and meth that I’ll see some gains. Derek likes to tune conservatively on 93, so I don’t expect a big bump there even with meth. However, I do expect about 30-40whp and about another 50wtq with E. I don’t want to speak to optimistically because I have been somewhat disappointed on my last predictions and don’t want to set myself up with another disappointment.

 

[random84]

Sorry to hear about your lifter. Threads like this remind me how fortunate I've been with my build. I think I'm coming up on 15k miles....

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[Rubber Duck]

What happened:
I suffered a collapsed lifter about 200 miles past my last build in October 2021 probably due to a failing cam bearing. I'm not sure if this failure was due to possible install error for my new cam and heads or just plain bad luck and there was an underlying issue all along prior to my last round of mods. Whatever the case maybe I decided to rebuild using another performance shop over the last several months.

Fortunately for me the 416 crank and block could be reused and was still in good shape. The crank was re-polished and the block was bored and honed. The engine builder also replaced all the bearings (main, cam and rod) and installed new LS2K Diamond racing pistons with 9.5 Compression ratio 4.080 bore -18cc.

Unfortunately for me the brand new custom stroker cam I bought from GP tuning was damaged on one of the lobes from the failed lifter, so I had to procure that same cam again from him. I also had to buy a new set of lifters and this time I decided to go with Johnson 2116r lifters (previously had 2110r lifters). In addition, I had to buy another brand new 10355 replacement pump due to any metal that might still be in my old pump.

What's new:
Since the engine had to be rebuilt, I had my new shop contact LME and they said this engine is good for 1000whp, but recommended I stay under that number for longevity and durability.

So with that news I decided to make the following changes:

• I increased my 2650 pulley combo from 3.0/8.6 to 2.625/8.6
• Added an Alky Meth kit w/3 gallon in trunk tank
• New motor mounts
• Get the Holley Hydramats I previously purchased for the Fore kit installed (was never installed on my last build even though they were provided)
• Use Derek Dunbar as my tuner going forward

Goals:
I was pretty happy with the power my car had, but I wasn’t happy with the way my car shifted during normal driving during the short time I had it. This time around I just hope the car operates and shifts/drives/starts smoothly and that I will have a safe (not to aggressive) tune.

My previous build made 889whp and 783wtq on E and 813whp and 715wtq on 93.

I hope with addition of a smaller upper pulley and meth that I’ll see some gains. Derek likes to tune conservatively on 93, so I don’t expect a big bump there even with meth. However, I do expect about 30-40whp and about another 50wtq with E. I don’t want to speak to optimistically because I have been somewhat disappointed on my last predictions and don’t want to set myself up with another disappointment.

Nicely written Mr. Soss..

 

[Hotsoss]

Sorry to hear about your lifter. Threads like this remind me how fortunate I've been with my build. I think I'm coming up on 15k miles....

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Yeah, no matter how careful you can be, things can always break at these power levels. I got almost 20k miles on my LME short block and surprised I had this type of failure so soon considering how I used the car. My gut tells me that there was an install error with either my heads or cam because I did not have any known problems until after this last build. I can’t prove this obviously, but this failure is very suspicious being as though it happened so soon after the build. Before pulling the motor my new shop sent my oil to blackstone and it showed excessive metal wear from the bearings and camshaft metals.

 

[Vwlove56]

Hope this makes you feel better

 

[kittyboy]

It seems at high power level operation based on my own Blackstone history, increased bearing wear is inherent, just something to mitigate best as possible. What oil were you running? I ran 10w40 last time around and will soon receive a report to compare between the previous M1 5w30. Recently changed over to Amsoil 10w40.

 

[Hotsoss]

It seems at high power level operation based on my own Blackstone history, increased bearing wear is inherent, just something to mitigate best as possible. What oil were you running? I ran 10w40 last time around and will soon receive a report to compare between the previous M1 5w30. Recently changed over to Amsoil 10w40.

You make a very good point and that is something I forgot to mention. I used Mobil 1 5w-30 since the very beginning of when my engine was built by LME in the Summer of 2017. I stopped using this oil in June 2021 because I noticed my hot oil pressure decreased from 29-30psi to around 23-25psi and occasionally it would dip down to 21-22psi. I immediately contacted LME and expressed my concerns that oil looked watery when hot. LME then recommended that I should be using a Valvoline 10w-30 oil based on my slightly looser clearance levels that they spec when building this engine.

Upon using this Valvoline 10w-30 I noticed my hot oil pressure would hover around 29-31psi and dip to around 26-27psi when super hot or driven a long time. I used this oil from July 2021-September 2021 when I dropped the car off for the last build. Fast forward to March 2022...the machine shop that repaired my engine noticed that the shop that did my last build used Driven oil during my tear down.

Going forward the engine builder is recommending I use Mobil 1 15w-50 weight oil during the summer because he built this engine with loose tolerances due to the type of power adder I am using and the power level this engine will make. I plan to keep an eye on my oil pressure and see how if the flow remains the same as the temps start to dip in the 50-60s. The plan for now is to back the oil down to something like 10w-40 for the colder months and put the heavier weight oils in around April when the temps start to go up again here in New Jersey.

 

[Black_V21]

I was running VR1 10W40 when I spun a main bearing. It was on the SBE at 850+ rwhp so I know I was pushing my luck but still something to keep an eye on for my next build.

 

[Hotsoss]

I think a lot of these main bearing failures is due to significantly higher power than stock with the very tight stock clearances. You were making nearly 400 more whp than a stock LSA motor. I would definitely talk to your engine builder and see if they spec you looser clearances on your next build.

Do the LS9 motors have the same issues? I only hear about this with the LSA engines.

 

[random84]

I think any quality synthetic with appropriate pressure at Temps should be good. As long as it's not M1 5w30 or any mainstream oil designed for "emissions." Those are low on zince / ZDDP on purpose. Hard to say why engines fail, but spinning a bearing at any condition other than WOT or without oil in it is probably contamination, cheap oil or old oil. Right up there with lifters.

Change the oil often, and buy quality (redline, amsoil, "high mileage" or similar). I personally prefer Redline but any racing orientated oil should be good. Look at 5w40 or 10w40 to start. A 50 weight will be nice and thick on cold starts and might be overkill, since the majority of wear is cold start.

Also, let your motor warm up fully before getting into WOT.

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[Rubber Duck]

I think a lot of these main bearing failures is due to significantly higher power than stock with the very tight stock clearances. You were making nearly 400 more whp than a stock LSA motor. I would definitely talk to your engine builder and see if they spec you looser clearances on your next build.

Do the LS9 motors have the same issues? I only hear about this with the LSA engines.

Higher cylinder pressures, push down harder on the main caps.

Also, while the stock LSA cranks are good for ~900 fwHP (same as B-15 lsX), they do begin
to whip, at or around 800 fwHP, at higher engine rpm, also taking their toll on main bearings.

This is why many are going to the cranks utilizing eight counterweights.

Oil pump cavitation, at higher engine rpm also must be dealt with. . . .

 

[Rubber Duck]

I think any quality synthetic with appropriate pressure at Temps should be good. As long as it's not M1 5w30 or any mainstream oil designed for "emissions." Those are low on zince / ZDDP on purpose. Hard to say why engines fail, but spinning a bearing at any condition other than WOT or without oil in it is probably contamination, cheap oil or old oil. Right up there with lifters.

Change the oil often, and buy quality (redline, amsoil, "high mileage" or similar). I personally prefer Redline but any racing orientated oil should be good. Look at 5w40 or 10w40 to start. A 50 weight will be nice and thick on cold starts and might be overkill, since the majority of wear is cold start.

Also, let your motor warm up fully before getting into WOT.

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Here you go. . . Pure gold from the 1950's.

When the bottle was empty, we simply went to the lube room,
and cranked a handle fitted to an oil barrel, in order to refill it.

Cost was about 19-Cents / Quart.

 

[Hotsoss]

I think any quality synthetic with appropriate pressure at Temps should be good. As long as it's not M1 5w30 or any mainstream oil designed for "emissions." Those are low on zince / ZDDP on purpose. Hard to say why engines fail, but spinning a bearing at any condition other than WOT or without oil in it is probably contamination, cheap oil or old oil. Right up there with lifters.

Change the oil often, and buy quality (redline, amsoil, "high mileage" or similar). I personally prefer Redline but any racing orientated oil should be good. Look at 5w40 or 10w40 to start. A 50 weight will be nice and thick on cold starts and might be overkill, since the majority of wear is cold start.

Also, let your motor warm up fully before getting into WOT.

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Good advice! Thanks Random! My build is wrapping up soon and I will speak to them again with the game plan concerning oil. I will also mention Redline as well.

I typically changed my oil every 1700-2000 miles or every 3 months (whatever came first). After the break-in oil procedure is completed, I plan to change my oil after about 1000 miles and have it sent to black stone just to ensure nothing is wearing prematurely.

I always let the car warm up thoroughly before going WOT. To be honest, I only went WOT three times during the 200 miles I drove it Lol .

 

[Sbchris]

Johnson lifter failing??? Never heard of such a thing.

Sorry to hear the news, is this build number 3? 4?


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[07GTS]

also check what oil your engine parts recommend, clearances are adjustable when building to suit but i noticed when i got my lifters they had a recommendation of 30 weight oil to suit them, high rpm requires flow to fill them which adding thicker oil increases pressure but slows the flow, id rather have more flow going thru the bearings and lifters/rockers keeping them cooler as long as the film strength can cope with a quality oil

 

[Hotsoss]

Johnson lifter failing??? Never heard of such a thing.

Sorry to hear the news, is this build number 3? 4?


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To be fair, the Johnson lifter did not fail. The lifter collapsed because my cam bearing failed causing the lifter to collapse. It wasn’t anything faulty with the lifters. Luckily I caught the noise on a cold start and sent the car in right away for diagnoses. Had I not done that I probably would have spun the bearing and I would’ve been totally screwed.

I bought this car almost 10 years ago and this is my 6th build since owning the car. Four of the builds were significant builds (major mods or engine stuff) and two of the builds were just basic mods like pulleys or swapping out blowers for bigger blowers with no other changes.

 

[Hotsoss]

also check what oil your engine parts recommend, clearances are adjustable when building to suit but i noticed when i got my lifters they had a recommendation of 30 weight oil to suit them, high rpm requires flow to fill them which adding thicker oil increases pressure but slows the flow, id rather have more flow going thru the bearings and lifters/rockers keeping them cooler as long as the film strength can cope with a quality oil

That’s a good point! I’ll mention that as well when I speak with machine shop.

 

[MrSurly]

DAYumm! sixth build?!?!?

yer scarin me, dood

 

[Hotsoss]

DAYumm! sixth build?!?!?

yer scarin me, dood

Actually it was seven builds, but only two of these builds were due to failure.

1. Build 1: Nov 2013 - 2.4 upper, ID850 injectors, NEP 4.5 intake and under hood reservoir, dyno/street tune.

2. Build 2: Mar 2015 - 8.6 lower, new reservoir tank (original was leaking), and retune.

3. Build 3: Summer/Fall 2017 - Failure due to collapse intercooler lid sending particles through the engine and cracking a ringland. Everything but the 1.9 supercharger was a total loss. I ended up getting a new LME forged 416 with LTH, new cam and LS7 lifters.

4. Build 4: July 2018 - Maggie 2300 Heartbeat Supercharger, DSX Auxiliary, DSX E85 kit, an Active Interchiller and retune.

5. Build 5: February 2020 - Kong 2650 with Intercooler Lid and 5.0 DDP intake.

6. Build 6: October 2021 - M311 heads, New custom stroker cam, Johnson 2110r lifters, New Melling oil pump and a Fore Fuel System.

7. Build 7: Feb 2022-Current - New Bearings and honing of block, new diamond pistons, new Replacement cam, Melling oil pump and lifters (this time 2116r with trays), Meth kit and smaller 2.625 upper pulley.

 

[Hotsoss]

also check what oil your engine parts recommend, clearances are adjustable when building to suit but i noticed when i got my lifters they had a recommendation of 30 weight oil to suit them, high rpm requires flow to fill them which adding thicker oil increases pressure but slows the flow, id rather have more flow going thru the bearings and lifters/rockers keeping them cooler as long as the film strength can cope with a quality oil

I checked in with the shop doing my build and they said I'll be using 15w50 Mobil 1 for the summer months and 10w40 Mobil 1 for the winter months. He also said that the 2116 Johnson lifters have higher flow characteristics than the factory ones so they will have no issues with either viscosity.