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Thread: Cts-v 388 blow up video

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by mini_me View Post
    I snapped a Manley pro billet I beam rod last year in my lsx. Surprisingly, it just needed to be bored .030 to clean it up.
    Looks like you got "lucky" and it snapped at the big end so there was no rod swinging around like a light saber destroying your block once it let go!
    From where it failed it looks like these new Wiseco Boostline rods would be an improvement.

    2012 CTS-V Sedan 6MT - Triple black - 2.5" upper pulley, Magnaflow exhaust, Airaid Intake, Fluidyne HX

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  2. #32
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    Just a couple more thoughts to those interested:

    In two of my earlier posts I gave G-Force Calculations.

    Most Connecting Rod companies only rate their engines via HP.
    Ask them what the Con Rod is rated too for RPM.

    In most cases you won't get an answer..lol

    The HP rating is a guideline, RPM and G-Forces should play more of a factor I would
    think. RPM, piston and con rod weight, along with crankshaft stroke are the biggest
    determining factors when the con rod is working in tension.

    As the calculations I provided earlier will show:
    Crankshaft stroke will determine piston acceleration and speed
    along with engine RPM.

    Piston weight also adds into the equation, especially with
    a piston that is going to be used in a boosted application
    as they must be more rugged.

    Connecting rod bolts should be evaluated only in tension,
    not in compression, so HP ratings have no relevance to
    con rod bolts, as the cylinder pressure related to HP
    is only a concern when the rod is in compression.

    But they are greatly impacted in tension, which includes
    the weight of the piston, pins and connecting rods.

    Generally speaking, everything being equal, an I-Beam
    will be stronger than an H-Beam at equal weights because
    the I-Beam design provides for a stiffer 'Beam'!

    -everything being the same-
    To get an equal stiffness, one must run a 'Heavier' H-Beam rod.

    Also, when comparing a broken or bent I-Beam against
    and H-Beam, it is best to 'Also' know several things.

    1) is the material the same?
    2) is the engine size and stroke the same?
    3) is the hp rating the same?
    4) was the rpm the same?

    So even a picture does not tell one the entire story
    relevant to a broken or bent con rod...

    ---------------------------------------------------------

    Finally;
    Most of the products that are 'Bandied' around are made overseas
    and purchased by people who own large groups of auto parts
    companies.

    The above has become more prevalent over the last few years
    as many companies have been sold to this group of investors.

    So 'Real' race parts / components are not as easy to find
    or purchase anymore (JMHO)!

    It is to the point here in the USA where it is very difficult
    to determine what quality one is buying, versus what the
    cost should be for that product.

    Cheers
    Last edited by Rubber Duck; 09-06-2019 at 03:24 PM.
    random84 likes this.
    Calculating the valve curtain area
The following equation mathematically defines the available flow area for any given valve diameter and lift value:
Area = valve diameter x 0.98 x 3.14 x valve lift
Where 3.14 = pi (π)
For a typical 2.02-inch intake valve at .500-inch lift, it calculates as follows:
Area = 2.02 x 0.98 x 3.14 x 0.500 = 3.107 square[Contact UsArchiveTop

  3. #33
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    Duck,

    What are your thoughts on the Powdered metal forged rods that come in the LSA and Hellcats engines?

    They are obviously strong.


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  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by larry arizona View Post
    Duck,

    What are your thoughts on the Powdered metal forged rods that come in the LSA and Hellcats engines?

    They are obviously strong.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    They are actually better than some of the 'Imported' con rods
    being sold by many of the well known 'Brands' that some of
    us pay good money for.

    They are the same con rod used in the lsX Iron Engine
    that GM rates up to 900 fwHP.

    This may come as a surprise to many, but I don't
    recommend putting a better con rod bolt in these
    PM Con Rods.

    If your build is going to exceed something like
    750 rwHP, then toss the PM con rods and look
    to purchasing a better con rod with better bolts (JMHO)!

    -note-
    100% cylinder fill for an 376 cid engine,
    will generate ~ 775 fwHP. At this HP
    level your con rod will have to endure
    far more in compression mode than will
    the stock PM con rod.

    So the theory goes; to get more than a 100%
    cylinder fill with a 'Boosted' engine, one is
    going to have to be increasing the cylinder
    fill with 'Boost', which will substantially
    increase the cylinder pressures above the piston,
    which then will increase the con rods
    requirements in the Compression Mode.

    The cylinder pressures I wrote about above are
    related to the pressures generated above the
    piston with the 'Big Bang' (on ignition) which
    are related to HP. So the higher the cylinder
    pressures are, the more the HP should be.

    Since a boosted engine requires a much more
    rugged and heavier piston, the G-Forces will
    then increase the con rod requirements in the
    Tension Mode at 'Any' Engine RPM.


    -------------------------------------------------------

    As you know Kent, I don't like to move people towards
    purchasing any brand or companies products.

    So I am not going to give out any names here, but
    some on this forum should be looking at who makes
    the best 'Steel Billet' I-Beam Con Rods.

    Also, just because the 'Print' says it is 4340,
    not all 4340 is the same. . . .
    Last edited by Rubber Duck; 09-06-2019 at 04:14 PM.
    Calculating the valve curtain area
The following equation mathematically defines the available flow area for any given valve diameter and lift value:
Area = valve diameter x 0.98 x 3.14 x valve lift
Where 3.14 = pi (π)
For a typical 2.02-inch intake valve at .500-inch lift, it calculates as follows:
Area = 2.02 x 0.98 x 3.14 x 0.500 = 3.107 square[Contact UsArchiveTop

  6. #35
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    RD - can you share reason stay with GM rod bolt vs ARP?
    2009.5 Passion Red Metallic G8 GT
    Experience is what you get when you didn't get what you wanted. -Pausch

  7. #36
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    12,755

    Cts-v 388 blow up video

    I know it's an H beam but these are pretty nice rods if you have the budget. Some of the more respected engine builders for LS engines use them in "2000 hp" rated short/long blocks.



  8. #37
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    Last edited by Unavowed; 09-06-2019 at 04:50 PM.

  9. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcmgt View Post
    RD - can you share reason stay with GM rod bolt vs ARP?
    Okay, just to make things clear;
    I did not say one can't do it,
    I stated I don't recommend it.

    PM Rods are in many peoples opinions a 'Throw Away' rod.
    They are not easily reconditioned.

    Looking back historically, when we put new rod bolts in a con rod
    we would recondition them.

    Since the con rod assembly is rated at 900 fwHP by GM
    then in my opinion once you exceed something like
    750 rwHP on an accurate chassis dyno, I simply suggest
    one buys a better con rod assembly with the correct
    rod bolts for your application.

    The 750 fwHP is a number I came up with, understanding
    that 775 fwHP represents 100% cylinder fill as I explained
    in my earlier post.

    It's simply my reasoning. . . .

    Cheers
    Last edited by Rubber Duck; 09-06-2019 at 05:41 PM.
    Calculating the valve curtain area
The following equation mathematically defines the available flow area for any given valve diameter and lift value:
Area = valve diameter x 0.98 x 3.14 x valve lift
Where 3.14 = pi (π)
For a typical 2.02-inch intake valve at .500-inch lift, it calculates as follows:
Area = 2.02 x 0.98 x 3.14 x 0.500 = 3.107 square[Contact UsArchiveTop

  10. #39
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    Nov 2012
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    Sacramento California
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lt1z View Post
    I know it's an H beam but these are pretty nice rods if you have the budget. Some of the more respected engine builders for LS engines use them in "2000 hp" rated short/long blocks.


    Dyers Connecting Rods. . . . Yes We Agree!!!!!

    300M steel. . . Very high strength material. . . .

    Crower also makes excellent con rods from 'Steel Billet'.

    Those two phrases above referencing 'Steel' are what
    should be used when querying for con rods (JMHO)!

    Don't look for 4340 as there are different grades of 4340,
    and some of the engine parts being imported into America
    by various companies also have shown that the quality
    of the 4340 varies from run to run.
    Last edited by Rubber Duck; 09-06-2019 at 05:15 PM.
    Calculating the valve curtain area
The following equation mathematically defines the available flow area for any given valve diameter and lift value:
Area = valve diameter x 0.98 x 3.14 x valve lift
Where 3.14 = pi (π)
For a typical 2.02-inch intake valve at .500-inch lift, it calculates as follows:
Area = 2.02 x 0.98 x 3.14 x 0.500 = 3.107 square[Contact UsArchiveTop

  11. #40
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    Nov 2012
    Location
    Sacramento California
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    I forgot:

    Let's say you were shifting at 7,000 rpm's.
    Now you move to maybe 8,000 rpm's.

    The tension on the con rod will rise by 31%.

    Here is the math:
    => (8^2 ÷ 7^2) = +31%

    As 'Mean Mike' said yesterday.
    I think I am now 'Nerded Out'..lol

    Cheers
    Last edited by Rubber Duck; 09-07-2019 at 09:58 AM.
    random84 likes this.
    Calculating the valve curtain area
The following equation mathematically defines the available flow area for any given valve diameter and lift value:
Area = valve diameter x 0.98 x 3.14 x valve lift
Where 3.14 = pi (π)
For a typical 2.02-inch intake valve at .500-inch lift, it calculates as follows:
Area = 2.02 x 0.98 x 3.14 x 0.500 = 3.107 square[Contact UsArchiveTop

  12. #41
    Vendor
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    Jul 2011
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    12,755
    These are also a good option for a Steel rod when you are pushing the limits with boost or a combination of boost and nitrous.


  13. #42
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    Nov 2012
    Location
    Sacramento California
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    3,907
    Quote Originally Posted by Rubber Duck View Post
    Just a couple more thoughts to those interested:

    In two of my earlier posts I gave G-Force Calculations.

    Most Connecting Rod companies only rate their engines via HP.
    Ask them what the Con Rod is rated too for RPM.

    In most cases you won't get an answer..lol

    The HP rating is a guideline, RPM and G-Forces should play more of a factor I would
    think. RPM, piston and con rod weight, along with crankshaft stroke are the biggest
    determining factors when the con rod is working in tension.

    As the calculations I provided earlier will show:
    Crankshaft stroke will determine piston acceleration and speed
    along with engine RPM.

    Piston weight also adds into the equation, especially with
    a piston that is going to be used in a boosted application
    as they must be more rugged.

    Connecting rod bolts should be evaluated only in tension,
    not in compression, so HP ratings have no relevance to
    con rod bolts, as the cylinder pressure related to HP
    is only a concern when the rod is in compression.

    But they are greatly impacted in tension, which includes
    the weight of the piston, pins and connecting rods.

    Generally speaking, everything being equal, an I-Beam
    will be stronger than an H-Beam at equal weights because
    the I-Beam design provides for a stiffer 'Beam'!

    -everything being the same-
    To get an equal stiffness, one must run a 'Heavier' H-Beam rod.

    Also, when comparing a broken or bent I-Beam against
    and H-Beam, it is best to 'Also' know several things.

    1) is the material the same?
    2) is the engine size and stroke the same?
    3) is the hp rating the same?
    4) was the rpm the same?

    So even a picture does not tell one the entire story
    relevant to a broken or bent con rod...

    ---------------------------------------------------------

    Finally;
    Most of the products that are 'Bandied' around are made overseas
    and purchased by people who own large groups of auto parts
    companies.

    The above has become more prevalent over the last few years
    as many companies have been sold to this group of investors.

    So 'Real' race parts / components are not as easy to find
    or purchase anymore (JMHO)!

    It is to the point here in the USA where it is very difficult
    to determine what quality one is buying, versus what the
    cost should be for that product.

    Cheers
    Here is another recent purchase of a respected company that
    is known to sell quality 'High Perf" products.

    I have simply cut and pasted this from Speed - Talk.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------

    Hope this isn't a repost but poking around the total seal website I found this and can't imagine it ending well for total seal:

    Total Seal® Adds New ?Split? Ring Compressors To Their Selection Of Piston Ring Installation Tools « news/ ... pany-sold/
    Total Seal® Piston Rings Company Sold to an investment group led by Promus Equity Partners, Jon S. Vesely and Total Seal President Matt Hartford

    June 10, 2019 Phoenix, Arizona Total Seal® Piston Rings, the undisputed leader in high performance ring design founded by Joe Moriarty over 50 years ago, has been sold to an investment group led by Promus Equity Partners, Jon S. Vesely and Total Seal President Matt Hartford. The sale was finalized June 7th, 2019, and released in a joint statement by Joey Moriarty, son of founder Joe Moriarty, Promus Equity Partners, Jon S. Vesely and Matt Hartford.

    Moriarty said, “My dad would be pleased that Matt is carrying on Total Seal, maintaining the integrity of the company and furthering our position as the leaders in Piston Ring technology for racing and high performance markets.” Hartford commented, “I’m looking forward to continuing our development of the very latest in piston ring designs for the racing and automotive industry. We have some very exciting new advancements that will further solidify our leadership position.”

    Hartford served as Vice President of the company since joining Total Seal in 1998, and is now the CEO and President. Hartford previously was a Nuclear Engineer in the US Navy.

    Promus Equity Partners and Jon S. Vesely, Chairman of Total Seal, said, “We’re grateful to partner with Total Seal’s Matt Hartford to position the company for its next chapter with a plan to make ongoing investments in the company to serve our valued customers all over the globe for years into the future. Total Seal has a reputation of leading the industry in all the markets it serves and we are very excited about the future for the company, building on their strengths and expanding their reach.”

    From the finest High Performance Piston Rings, to the ultimate ring tools and specialty lubricants, the top engine builders, race teams and enthusiasts of NASCAR, NHRA, PDRA, INDYCAR, and Formula 1 choose Total Seal®.

    Total Seal®Piston Rings
    800-874-2753 or 623-587-7400
    TOTAL SEAL PISTON RINGS
    About Promus Equity Partners
    Promus Equity Partners is a private equity investment firm affiliated with Promus Holdings, a multi-family asset management firm based in Chicago, Illinois.

    About Jon S. Vesely
    Jon S. Vesely, Chairman of Total Seal, has over 25 years experience making private equity investments and serving in senior leadership positions developing and leading growth oriented strategies in the for-profit and non-profit sectors. He is based in Scottsdale, Arizona.

    -------------------------------------------

    A comment regarding the above post:
    Matt is still the big wig of the company, so I don't expect any negative affects from the sale.

    -----------------------------------------------

    And a response that pretty much mirrors my thoughts!

    That it usually a 6-12 month deal, then development ends, customer service and unpopular part numbers slashed, production moved, quality ignored and profit extracted......a lot of borrowing while the company's credit is still good too and the money vanishes much like when the mob "helps" a business. Usually, hopefully not, but usually.
    Calculating the valve curtain area
The following equation mathematically defines the available flow area for any given valve diameter and lift value:
Area = valve diameter x 0.98 x 3.14 x valve lift
Where 3.14 = pi (π)
For a typical 2.02-inch intake valve at .500-inch lift, it calculates as follows:
Area = 2.02 x 0.98 x 3.14 x 0.500 = 3.107 square[Contact UsArchiveTop

  14. #43
    Active Member
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    Dec 2017
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    195
    Quote Originally Posted by Lt1z View Post
    These are also a good option for a Steel rod when you are pushing the limits with boost or a combination of boost and nitrous.

    These are what I've been eyeballing for an LSX build. $$$ but I want to do it once.
    2012 CTS-V
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    2.55/9.84 • BTR3 Torque Cam • ID1050X's
    New Era 4.5" • DSX Aux Kit & Flex Fuel • TSP 2" headers
    -12AN ZL1 Lid • Vadder Dual HX • Stewart EMP • PNR Trunk Tank

  15. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by EFoxwell View Post
    These are what I've been eyeballing for an LSX build. $$$ but I want to do it once.
    They are more then most people will need but if you plan on being deep into the 4 digit power range they are a great choice.


 
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