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Build Thread for the Madallac...700rwhp

48K views 312 replies 24 participants last post by  adam112 
#1 ·
Im starting a new thread over here in engine performance since all of my mods have been engine focused to this point...If you want to get caught up on the Madallac Click Here...had her for just over a month, two weeks of which she was on jack stands getting some work done.

So the first weekend (started on a Saturday) I pulled the exhaust, driveshaft, rear sub-frame, gas tank...by the next Saturday night I had: installed a Kenne Bell BAP, fabricated and installed new fuel pump circuit tapping in to the factory relay signal pulled from the rear fuse block (pics to come) complete with 40 amp relay for the 30 some amps the DWs will pull at 15.2v pushing 71 Psi (safe voltage level to feed FPCM), installed DW pumps and new module seals for pump and sender, re-installed the gas tank and rear sub-frame, modified the gas pedal location, and filled the transmission with Amsoil Torquedrive. That Sunday I replaced the oil pan gasket with help from a buddy of mine (it was wet but no drips, obviously a failed pan gasket). Had to drop the front sub-frame and take the bell housing to the firewall to get pan out, but now shes got a clean and sexy belly and well worth the 20 man hours or so in my car port (including breaks).

I got the car back on the road last Friday night after plumbing the diff cooler and filling the diff and hanging the exhaust. After two weeks in an N/A NB Miata...I forgot how freakin fast the V is...WOW!!

Last Saturday was spent plumbing the new Fuelab 6 micron Fiberglass filter between the hard line on the firewall and the fuel rail (installed pics to come). The bracket I fabricated out of 12 gauge stainless mounts to the two bolt holes in the rear of the factory lid...Got the alcohol sensor in as well with a crush style fitting on the rail (I maintained all factory support points and clipped the rail just on the other side of the quick efi lip). Then AN fittings on out to a summit stainless braided PTFE line back to the filter outlet...filter inlet is factory soft line, Fragola Perf quick efi to AN, 180 degree -6 tube with nuts. I replaced all O-Rings in the Russell quick EFI to AN adapters with Viton (Russell uses Buna, FYI).

Sunday I installed my Moroso catch can to the 'dirty side' of the PCV system...fabricated another bracket to support the front of the can (pics to come). I also wired and plumbed the Hobbs switch for the KB BAP and tapped in to coil power for the alcohol sensor.

I had the car aligned Tuesday AM since I had both sub-frames out...got the camber set just where I like it for my commute It was really reassuring to see everything still in tip top shape underneath...Diff cooler banjo and joints still clean along with that sweet looking oil pan! I had been having battery issues but thought it was all related to the 2 weeks of down time...cranked fine Tue AM, drove to the alignment shop, parked and told them what I needed...5 minutes later she was dead. The alternator had been putting out a consistent 14.5 V at idle so I knew the battery was suspect, they tested and confirmed that theory. Right up the road there is an interstate battery store. Dropped $160 on a battery but it has a 6 yr warranty and contains 99% lead and got me back the 200 cca I had lost in the AC Delco.

Last night I tapped in to the e67 J1 ECM connector for alcohol sensor input and dressed out the wiring back to the sensor.

Tunes are tomorrow. I'll get to the shop, install the ID1050Xs and see what she does on 93 and e85! Can't wait to share my results! Its supposed to rain all day tomorrow and that would really put a damper on the return trip...lol, hopefully I catch a break! My grandfather, who at my age had a '67 GT350 Fastback Mustang with the 390 cobrajet right after owning a brand new factory ordered '68 GTO, is going with me to the dyno...gonna be a scream, pun intended!

***Love the Amsoil Torquedrive trans fluid so far!! Smoothest shifts possible and less of the gear whine I was getting under certain loads!

***Also while I was working my day job (Mechanical Engineer...Go Hokies!!...Designer for the leading manufacturer of fuel dispensers in North America...Ask me how I know so much about actual octane and percentage of local Sheetz e85, 70% 110 octane in NC btw), and my nighttime ctsV job...I've been dieting for a bodybuilding competition April 8th and have been training 1.5 hrs 6 days a week and eating a diet more strict than your 2nd grade math teacher.
 

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#2 ·
Not sure where to start with that wall of text, but congrats on starting your mods, looking forward to a dyno vid.

I know what you mean about switching DD modes...mine is a 2500lb turbo Sonic, so the V weighs nearly twice as much and makes ~3 times as much HP at the wheels :D

Your fuel filter bracket seems excessively large compared to other options, but there's definitely something to be said for your DIY approach. Did you use an off the shelf sensor from a dealer? How did you tap power/ground? Just curious.

Oh, I'm also curious about the moving of the gas pedal...mostly how and why? lol.

Props on the bodybuilding. I have a few buddies into it and to really do it right on a competition level takes a different kind of person. I can barely keep my piehole shut to lose weight for my wedding!
 
#3 · (Edited by Moderator)
I hear you on the whole diet front...I've been way into bodybuilding for over a decade and its time for me to compete one last time and take a step back and get that jacked dad bod...lol

And yea sorry for the wall of text...I'm a detail guy, what can I say.

I constructed my own alcohol harness with a continental sensor purchased on line...nothing on this project through the dealer, tapped into power from coil 8. (It is so awesome owning a domestic LS platform...noone ever had stock for my M3...I can buy factory ish all over town and the internet for the V)

In total I sourced parts from about 7 vendors...probably 20 different brands at least, to put together the full conversion I spec'd out. No one currently offers this complete solution approach for drop-ins, voltage regulated by a BAP, new wiring harness for pumps, sensor, filter and bracket, all fittings spec'd for e85...not right now at least

The filter bracket is a bit bulky, I agree. I wanted it to remain rigid and not vibrate at a different harmonic than the blower itself. The construction is a little crude too as I only have a cutoff wheel, bench grinder, and bench top belt sander at home. I could have used one of the two machine shops I have access to at work, but didn't want to go in on a Saturday, and I've already done enough Govt work here at the plant between securing the car and spec'ing my project lol (also updating this forum:cool:), so a weekday wasn't happening either. I plan on modeling a bracket off my flat pattern so that I can reproduce in sexy fashion.

Moved the gas pedal forward about 1.5" because it was so deep to the brake there was no way I was getting my big awkward foot down there to heel toe...so far loving the new position as I continue to learn it. See attached for how. Had to stitch the weld together by hopping around stacking dimes...the case for the position sensor is ultrasonically welded together so you a'int taking the arm out...removed the pedal of course and took it slow to keep heat out of the electronics.

Also forgot to mention having the coilovers serviced in my original post, JRI is top notch I tell you! 75 miles from where I work...NASCAR I love you!

Kooks Headers/resonators/Corsa axle back
D3 CAI Intake
9.5" lower
D3 HX and 20gpm pump
D3 lid spacer
Setrab oil cooler
Differential cooler
82# injectors
Slotted Rotors
JRI coilovers
Chassis Reinforcement
Track Sway Bar Upgrade frt/rear

Just to save you a trip to the first thread this is how I bought the car

I've got the D3 spec'd set developed in collaboration between the two companies. The car handles comparably to my e46 M3 that was on KW V3 with urethane fcabs

Really impressed with JRI and their products



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So its taken me a month and a half to swallow my pride and post about my dyno day March 31...

All the doubters of my power potential were correct...I was wrong...trusted D3 a little too much when they told me I bought the car at 630whp. Every dealing with them since I got the car has further emphasized the level to which they suck at customer service. Call me crazy, but how a person feels after doing business with you matters to me.

The best I did on 93 was 540/560...tuned on ethanol with a set point of 69.7% and right at e70 in the tank she put down 590/603 with max boost 10.8 psi all day.

The car is still a blast, even if she ain't at 700whp. I have enough trouble with traction as it is. Running some 305/30/R19 Hankook Ventus rears I got for like $210 a piece installed. Went budget since I don't see them lasting all that long.

A couple weeks ago, the bearing in my 50mm D3 lower idler decided to sh*t the bed and caused some thread damage to the OEM bracket on its exit. Found internal bearing components melted to the splash shield with a nice blue heated hue.

I didnt want to put a 50mm back on and make it run 29k RPM at 6.1k engine RPM. LPE makes a relocation bracket but it was back ordered everywhere at the time so I pulled the factory one, took some rough measurements and modeled up my own relocation bracket so I could go back to a 70mm lower idler. Had it machined and it bolted right up! The new belt was spot on to what my model said I needed to go up to. That first drive back in boost after a week without it was a ton of fun.

Anyways, saw a comment on another thread about power numbers seeming high and I figured I'd clear the air on my build.
 

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#11 ·
More about these please

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#6 ·
Does the boost make sense? It was definitely lower than I was expecting (~13psi). Tuner adjusted the bypass valve to be sure and still 10.8 max.
 
#9 ·
I'm in Greensboro, NC Karch. Flew to orange and bought the car. Out here in NC designing fuel dispensers to pump your corn [emoji41]

It's an M6 though Matt...




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#204 ·
Have you heard of comdata or fleetcor or Sabrex.


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#13 ·
As long as his mostly nude girlfriend is standing in front of him...

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#17 ·
Whoop Whoop thread bump....

Figured since I'm back at building my big heavy biatch that I would jump back over to my build thread...

Met with Pete Harrell of HED down in Mooresvile this AM. Awesome guy! He's laid back, knows his stuff, and put me at ease knowing he will be putting my forged shortblock together. He's confident my block is good to go with proper machining (barring any weird, unforeseen issues of course). I'll be going with Wiseco Pistons, Molnar Rods, King bearings. He'll also be doing my valvejob once I tweak my heads a bit and get them down to him.

So here's a question for you guys...ARP hardware??
I just can't hardly swallow the expense of studs ($675ish for heads and mains). I'm looking to be high 600s wheel (or thereabouts) and certainly want reliability. Won't be spraying and will be at a max of 11-12 psi boost. Target for static CR will be 10:1. I'd like to stick with factory hardware, but want some of you to weigh in with experiences etc...And in terms of sourcing the TTY head bolts, Rock auto offers them from Mahle and Fel-Pro...

Pete and Matt (GPtuning) both indicated they stud everything they build. I get the benefit of stressing the stud threads and not the female threads in the block and that the clamp load is better with studs, but is it overkill for me? Can I spare the expense and still have peace of mind?

While the engine is in the hands of HED, I will be addressing other aspects of the rebuild process. Going to open up the blower inlet, do some head work, go through the trans and upgrade 1-4 synchros and all shift fork pads, repair/replace the power steering pressure line that is leaking...think that about wraps it up.

I value all input/advice.

Thanks!
 
#22 ·
Do the studs now, its not a lot of money with the expense you are going through, I see no reason to cheap out now and stunt the potential down the road to save a few hundred. Hit up Tyler with Mont and I'm sure he will give you a favorable price on the complete kit.
Please have Pete post pics of the blower work he does, their expertise is making power is second to none.
 
#18 · (Edited)
EDIT:

Sorry - I confused this Adam112 and his initial "700 RWHP" target vs his clone's other "tired engine" thread where I'm pretty sure he said his target was 600 RWHP and he might sell the car. I blame tapatalk as I apparently misread the thread title.

For THIS thread, since the OP stated a higher power goal, the tone is that he will probably keep modding and doesn't expect to sell the car anytime soon: I don't see any reason to skip out on head studs. My apologies about that!
 
#19 ·
Did you stud with the new heads Random?
 
#21 · (Edited)
I did. But I also used short travel axel-oiling lifters and aftermarket rocker arms. It was expensive.

But my long-term goals and budget were different - plenty of people making the same power on OEM or ARP bolts. I'll likely be selling the Unicorn on my death bed or when the frame rusts out.

Again, just stating the difference between "the best way" and "good enough."

EDIT:

Sorry - I confused this Adam112 and his initial "700 RWHP" target vs his clone's other "tired engine" thread where I'm pretty sure he said his target was 600 RWHP and he might sell the car. I blame tapatalk as I apparently misread the thread title.

For THIS thread, since the OP stated a higher power goal, the tone is that he will probably keep modding and doesn't expect to sell the car anytime soon: I don't see any reason to skip out on head studs. My apologies about that!
 
#20 ·
Hydraulic supply store said just buy the new gates hose for 100ish.

Glad they are getting good money for repair work at that store, I don't want them to go anywhere!

Picking up some fasteners now for a couple tools I'm making. Automotive fasteners inc. is an awesome place to have in your backyard (it started here and is still family owned). Along with a Grainger warehouse (pricey but short lead time vs. McMaster which is out of Georgia) and a couple well outfitted hydraulic stores. Glad I get to support a couple local businesses along the way.

Dead hose attached:

 
#25 ·
Making some headway


 
#26 ·
#27 ·
I appreciate it and saw those. I've got about $10 in mine and HED will be putting them back together.

As far as better, mine worked pretty good IMO

Blower is naked too now

 
#31 ·
Cool build man. So I might have missed it, but what pistons and rods are you going with for the 10:1cr.

And you are keeping the stock heads, just freshening them up?

Can’t wait to see power numbers.

Changing the cam?
 
#32 ·
Cam will be gp 2.5, stock heads ported a bit, remove the 'vane' as I've seen it called, cleaned up and a valve job.

Wiseco pistons, Molnar rods. I told Pete Harrell I'd like to be at 10:1 or under. He's going to order pistons accordingly, do the valve job, measure cc volume and mill the heads to get it close.

Thanks for the love dude. Sorry wife is 6 months post partem now...
 
#33 · (Edited)
Take your 700 hp and divide it by your cylinder head flow.
This will give you a the value denoting HP per Cylinder Head CFM required.

It's pretty easy to make 2.0 HP per Cylinder Head Flow_CFM with these engines.

The manifold pressure and the mass charge recovery system you run are very important!
The higher the mass charge recovery (also referred to as density ratio) you can retrieve. . . the better!

Stock heads flow ~295 cfm.
Multiply that by 2.1 and you can anticipate 620 hp.

If the heads flow 368 cfm, which is equal to _1-cfm _per valve sq." of surface area,
then multiply 368 by 2.1 and you can anticipate 772 Hp.

Most usually a 368 cfm head will give up at or around 750 hp or so,
but not always, depending on density ratio, cam, headers, fuel, tune, etc.

The guy's on this forum running heads that flow around 400 cfm,
and who are also using much boost, along with a good mass charge
recovery system, are making around 2.33 hp per cfm.

All of the above anticipated performance numbers, are also related
to Engine RPM, as well as other engine components, such as camshaft profiles.

As your heads flow better, you can actually reduce the intake duration.

If your heads are only flowing around 290 cfm, then your going to need
sufficient cam / intake lobe duration to meet your _InFlow CFM numbers,
which in turn will allow you to generate your HP objectives.

It is pretty easy to get these heads to flow around 335 cfm.
Removing the wing in the intake port is the first thing.

But proven multi angle valve jobs are very important.

The valve controls the flow of the head, up until what is called convergence valve lift.
Convergence lift is => 2.165 x 0.25 and equals 0.541" of 'NET LIFT'.
-where 2.165" is the diameter of the intake valve and 0.25 = 25%-

As the valve is lifted and passes that 0.541" lift value, the port then begins to control the flow.
Frankly, the ports on these LS Engines don't flow well at high lifts.

So it is very important to use the 'Correct' multi angle valve job,
as all those angles, both on the valve seat, as well as on the back of
the valve, are very, very important, in directing the mass charge
'Correctly' into the combustion chamber !!

-now, the statement below is why I wrote everything above-
Just a suggestion: if your going to port your heads, I suggest you get them
flowed also, giving you a reference point for later useful analysis...:D

Finally; 335 cfm x 2 equals a potential HP of 670.

And 335 cfm x 2.1 equals a potential HP of 703.5.

Good Luck!

Cheers,
Bruce
 
#35 ·
Full day of making a mess to free up some air flow. It's no chaos or Karch port, but should be a marked improvement over the as cast beginning. Not perfect, but I got my die grindin' legs back under me so I have confidence to take on the heads next.

A good cleaning and a couple new bearings and the blower can go back together.

 
#37 ·
'Old Time Hot rodding'. . . . Doing everything yourself..:cool:

Nice. . .
 
#40 ·
Another full day of windin and grindin. 8 hrs and I only got the intake ports done!

 
#41 · (Edited)
It appears your porting your own heads now. . . .

If so, to what dimensions and to what Minimum Circular Square Area (MCSA)?

The MCSA desired is linked to engine rpm.

The average CSA, multiplied by the intakes length / port center line length, will yield the CC's of the port.
That port volume is heavily linked to both torque rpm as well as hp rpm.

Here is some useful math for you;

Average_CSA = Port_Volume_CC / (Port_CenterLine_Length * 16.387)

Port_Volume_CC = Average_CSA * Port_CenterLine_Length * 16.387

Port_CenterLine_Length = Port_Volume_CC / ( Average_CSA *16.387 )

FPS = ( Flow_CFM * 2.4 ) / Average_CSA

Anticipated Flow_CFM = Average_CSA * FPS * .4166667

Average_CSA = ( Flow_CFM * 2.4) / FPS

In the end, your port volume, MCSA, piston square inches (surface area), piston speed, flow & "VELOCITY' of
the port, along with such things as; camshaft lobe (lift, duration & centerline) play a large
role regarding at what engine rpm, both peak torque and peak hp are achieved.

Finally, generally speaking; the port can be made smaller, to aid in increasing velocity <= Read above formulas again..:eek:
if the approach of the runner, to the back-side of the valve, is made both higher and straighter.

Boost will increase peak torque, but will also 'Reduce' the engine rpm
at which peak torque is generated <= Moral of the story is. . . you will need a bigger tire 'Just Above Idle RPM'..:p

Have fun 'Spitting' aluminum..;)

Cheers
 
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#42 · (Edited)
Little thread bumpage, I've been busy as hell with vacation coming.

Saw a good buddy and fellow hot toddler at the gym last night, named Van, and filled him in on my build. As soon as the name Harrell came out of my mouth, he couldn't say enough good things about Pete. About how Pete would drive up to Darlington from Denton in his mustang, swap the tires and tune, run 5.7Xs off the foot brake (trans brake not allowed in the class), then drive it home. Pete has the leaf spring world record at 4.3160 in a Ford powered Dart, Van chuckled as he noted the combo.

Glad HED is getting me right.

I'll be back when I have some down time to fill in on progress, lessons learned, etc...

Edit: Van is not a hot toddler, but a hot rodder...autocorrect is a trip...
 
#43 ·
Little thread bumpage, I've been busy as hell with vacation coming.

Saw a good buddy and fellow hot toddler at the gym last night, named Van, and filled him in on my build. As soon as the name Harrell came out of my mouth, he couldn't say enough good things about Pete. About how Pete would drive up to Farmington from Denton in his mustang, swap the tires and tune, run 5.7Xs off the foot brake (trans brake not allowed in the class), then drive it home. Pete has the leaf spring world record at 4.3160 in a Ford powered Dart, Van chuckled as he noted the combo.

Glad HED is getting me right.

I'll be back when I have some down time to fill in on progress, lessons learned, etc...
Yup Chads old Fart (Ford powered Dart) haha. Car has been hauling ass for decades. I wouldn't have steered you in the wrong direction man, I've followed HED for a long time! Look up "The" Kevin Mullins, he was with HED for a long time before he started his own gig.
 
#47 ·
Damn, I'm a lazy mofo!! Been on vacation all week and havent followed up here like I thought I would. I'll lay out where I am with things here and whats to come when I get back this weekend.

So on the heads, still more exhaust work to do, the burr that has been ole faithful for this project is too big for the bowl work, new burr will be at the house when I get home. I'll be doing a touch more work on the intake bowls in addition to finishing exhaust. I'll then take the exhaust ports smoother for less soot accumulation. The plan is to get my work done and the heads down to HED early next week for the valve job.

With the heads out of my hands, I'll focus on the blower case. The first step will be thorough cleaning, then I need to press out the bearing in the front of the case that supports the main, driven rotor. I got the blind bearing out, but not without a long ass fight...goodness gracious. Hopefully the following anecdote saves someone the hassle of trying to make a lesser puller work.

Pulling the blind blower case bearing Its gonna read like a story. I'm not in the mood to write directions like a manual, lol.

I tried using a pilot bearing puller, I even welded up my own U to press against because the stock one is too wide for the blower case...didnt cut it. I broke down and bought a harbor freight puller kit (Item 62601), just for one of the collets (it was the next-to-largest one, don't recall the size right off). Knowing the slide hammer that comes with the collets wouldnt stand a chance, I stopped by the fastener store and picked up some 9/16-12 threaded rod, a nut and hardened washer to operate the puller, and a coupler (sort of! in my case, I had to use three nuts as a coupler, two jam nuts and one coupler nut that shared the shafts (lol)). I drilled a 3/4" hole through some 1/2" steel plate I had lying around (I need a drill press, and a better drill bit selection above 1/2").

I cut to length the threaded rod. Then I installed the collet into the bearing using an electric impact; installed the rod (tighten jam nuts if applicable), plate, washer and nut; then I wailed away with the impact again and the bearing finally budged.

Instructional story over

The snout will be getting new bearings as well.

I plan to reinforce the brick while its out, its just dirty af at the moment, so I have some scrubbing to do first!

I have new blocker rings on the way for the trans, along with the bronze shift fork pads. Trans project should occur next weekend.

This took way longer than it should have to write, lol. Until next time.
 

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#48 ·
You're gamey, brah!

Head porting, blower rebuilding AND transmission work... all on the same "budget engine rebuild! "

Ha.

Seriously, nice going.

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#52 ·
What can I say, I just can't leave well enough alone!

I've had some tranny quirks that I intend to remedy. It's all part of the end goal of producing a solid ride.

The blower bearings just seemed like a good 'while I was there' thing. Eaton sure is proud of them though!
 
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