Calling out 98aggie's STAGGERING IAT2 claims!!
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Thread: Calling out 98aggie's STAGGERING IAT2 claims!!

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    Calling out 98aggie's STAGGERING IAT2 claims!!

    With a string of the most incredible thermodynamic results in the history of V2 modification and tuning, user "98aggie" has apparently cracked the code. All of us are eager to know how this has been done, but so far, he/she has been extremely stingy with the secret sauce.

    So I've pasted his posts below for reference. The BOLD bits are mine, not his - just to highlight the more important and interesting points and claims made.

    This call out, however, by it's very nature must be different than an old-fashioned street or track race. But just like in the 1320, everything must be measured, timed, and documented to the satisfaction of all involved.

    My suggestion here is a simple monetary bet. I'll put up some money (other members are encouraged to join me by adding to the cash pile - I will match your money $0.50 on the dollar to increase the pool). I would like to see about $10,000 to $25,000 on the line here.

    I need to determine what to do with information gained by this venture. A LOT of time and effort will go into testing and proving this, in settling the call out. I'm not a greedy bastard but I think in the end I would be remiss if I didn't get SOMEthing for all my time and effort. With the permission and endorsement of the CTSVOwners community, I'd like to propose that - IF AND ONLY IF a proven way is found, using conventional methods, to keep IAT2's under 102F, that I would be allowed to SELL this solution/information as a forum vendor. Prices would be set at rock bottom so that ANY V owner would have access to this. The reason to sell such a solution is simply to recoupe some of the extensive time, effort, and money that I will have to front to do this wider range of testing and verification. I would be 100% transparent with the total sum of all money collected, how many people bought in, and so on. And if the community feels anyone has benefited unfairly, I would refund money as appropriate. If you have comments or suggestions on this idea, I welcome them with any perspective you wish. Slam my idea if you think I am being a capitalist pig! Tell me I'm not charging enough if you ARE a capitalist pig LOL! Any and all comments and criticisms are welcome, invited, and appreciated.

    Certainly some expenses will be incurred during the testing and verification of the validity of the claims here. The losing party pays all cost associated with the contest. So if a car must be transported or tested, a tuner or dyno time needed, or objective 3rd parties or independent auditors needed - their costs are covered by the losing party. The methods and costs to procure the proper, adequate, and unbiased testing are TBD,

    To help ease things, I will offer to front ALL of the money needed to validate 89aggie's claims. I will reach out to the V community (I'm thinking the 'other' forum could be a rich source of crowdfunding here as I will promise to provide a cheap path - see above- to the complete solution if this cooling miracle turns out to be true!).

    I wanted to go ahead and get this thread started even though I don't have the details sorted out yet because frankly, I think the claims that 98aggie makes are fully and completely beyond the laws of physics and thermodynamics. That said - it should be clear that I am making this callout before we have ironed out all the details of the contest. I will look to the members of this community - especially if you are a licensed engineer or other legally certified mechanical, physical, flow or fluid, or other engineer. Anyone with impressive credentials that can lend a fully objective and competent audit and validation procedure to this callout should PM me with their pedigree. I will also seek a fully non-CTSVowners source of judging...which might be tricky but should be attempted in the interest of complete and balanced conclusions.

    Here is a consolidated list of the claims as a result of running Greg Good ported heads:

    1. A WOT pull from 0 to 200mph, 30 seconds at WOT, results in IAT2's of 102F with no meth or nitrous
    2. A 1 mile pull at WOT maintains IAT2's at a consistent level until the 3/4 mile mark, only then do they start going up.
    3. Car produces 712hp on 10psi of boost without IAT2 going over 102F - this is on stock cubes, stock blower, stock compression, and again no meth or nitrous
    4. Build #2 with the same Greg Good ported heads makes 739rwhp on a Mustang dyno with 13.5psi, using stock cubes, stock TB, stock compression, with ambient temps of 91F and max IAT2 of 102F
    5. No ice is used in the custom HX expansion tank 98aggie uses. No artificial cooling is involved, only air-to-liquid intercoolers are used, as is standard on these cars.
    6. He is running a "SMALL CAM". We will assume this is roughly no more than 224-ish duration on the intake, 236-ish exhaust, with lift around .600 and negative overlap of -10 to -14. Comments or suggestions on what "small" means?
    7. There is NO restriction at the blower outlet. His words exactly - NO restriction. The blower is "...very efficient and does not generate heat."
    8. Stock TB - no giant 102mm unit
    9. Stock upper pulley
    10. 10psi max boost on his build, 2nd build runs 13.5psi due to a lower and upper pulley swap
    11. Car makes 712rwhp at 10psi
    12. There is NO malfunction of any of the sensors. The wife of the owner drives the car daily so it must be working properly.
    13. Houston dynos all read higher than the one used by 98aggie. No idea why but I am sure he will provide an adequate explanation. But the important point here is that if his car makes 712rwhp with 102F IAT2's on THAT dyno, then on G-Force's Dynojet, it should prolly make 750 to 775 rwhp or more.




    So without any more fanfare, here are all of 89aggie's quotes regarding his incredible Greg Good heads. As noted before, the BOLD and the associated commentary are mine.

    First quote - 712whp with only 102F IAT2 - only just 10psi, which is only 1psi more than stock. 200mph pull gets IAT2 only up to 102F!! Man that is awesome!

    Quote Originally Posted by 98aggie View Post
    I'll take my greg good ported blower. 712rwhp on 10psi, IAT2 only gets to 102degrees on a 30sec WOT pull to up over 200mph. no meth or nitrous on the car with stock TB and stock upper pulley.

    Got several more being done and installed on several cars.
    10 inch lower only - stock upper. No ice, meth, or nitrous are used on the car. This cooling is pure HX liquid to ambient air exchange,

    Quote Originally Posted by 98aggie View Post
    10"
    Water or with ice it don't matter. Iats don't climb
    Apparently this is a pretty incredible porting job. It somehow manages to compress air without heating it, in direct violation of the ideal gas law. For an uber-nerdy discussion between me, Karch, and others see this thread: Ideal Gas Law and V/Supercharger heat generation

    712rwhp on a "small cam" and stock TB. Really solid results! Blower outlet has ZERO restriction, so no measurable pressure builds up after the blower because the engine sucks it all in immediately.

    Quote Originally Posted by 98aggie View Post
    nope nothing special here. Small Patrick G cam, stock tb, air raid cai, arh headers. My own design water tank. Greg good heads and blower. Because of Gregs porting I have no restriction on the blower outlet. So the blower is very efficient and does not generate heat.

    Pretty much a normal build I do for a street car or one that like to do standing mile events. Building 2 more cars with the same set up, and one with a much bigger motor and blower with the same porting.
    Again confirming the car makes only 1psi more than stock...

    Quote Originally Posted by 98aggie View Post
    10psi max boost
    Agreed on this one! If I had a solution like this, I'd keep it tight too!

    Quote Originally Posted by 98aggie View Post
    Sorry don't post pics of someones hard work for you or others to copy.
    Clearly 98aggie DOES have logging capability and uses EFI Live. He claims this is the fastest non-nitrous V out there. Also - 98aggie seems to claim this is the fastest V in the world with no nitrous or meth.

    Quote Originally Posted by 98aggie View Post
    I dont have any the logs, look at them on efi live after the runs but dont keep them. I dont need them so no need to keep them. Runs were made in october and in march where weather is in the 80s. No nitrous or meth on this car. All the people that run the mile have seen it. Think there is only 3 or 4 ctsv faster than this one and they all have nitrous.
    Quote Originally Posted by 98aggie View Post
    Normally iats on the dyno are in the 90s. Another car with a blower and heads ported by another shop his iats got to 120 in the same weather.
    Here's another

    Quote Originally Posted by 98aggie View Post
    On bad tranny 158 at half 192.1 at mile stayed in it to 200. Typically it tuns 161 at the half so 1 mile would be faster. Think iat2 if i rememeber right was 90. It didnt start climbing until the 3/4 mile mark.
    Quote Originally Posted by 98aggie View Post
    Yes there were some cars at the mile running faster at the half (around 163). A couple of memeber on here, but they couldnt control the IATs so they lost power on the top end and ended up in the 188-190 range at the mile.


    Iat2 sensor works fine - the owners wife drivers the car every day.
    Quote Originally Posted by 98aggie View Post
    Finished another build. Same Greg Good Porting. Pretty much the same as the other one just added the upper pulley snd decresded the lower. Stock ci, compression ,stock TB. 13.5psi boost. Ambient temps 91F, Iats climb to 102F on the dyno (mustang Dyno). 739 rwhp / 718tq.
    Again, all Houston dyno's read low (regardless of make or type??

    Quote Originally Posted by 98aggie View Post
    This dyno reads lower than the houston dynos.
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    lol
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    Ugh, cliffs?!?
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoppeR View Post
    Ugh, cliffs?!?
    ???
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    Thanks for stepping up to disprove(?) or at the very least, vet these claims. Hopefully, something can be weaned from thoroughly testing aggie's incredible results, even if repeatable numbers can't be matched to his setup. I'm sure that the community will benefit in some regard, to what extent though, that will be fully fleshed out.
    Of course, notwithstanding the extensive testing, I believe that the biggest hurdle to overcome at this point would be the legalese to be written up. To wit, does Good have any protection on his head design, would he be open to others replicating similar porting, would 98aggie sign anything forcing him to cover the costs of a failed vetting process (as this whole contest is essentially 98aggie vs the paying members of potentially two V forums), etc.
    I am truly excited about this undertaking and your commitment to "proof by repeatable testing" that I would have no hesitation to donate to the cause. Don't get too excited though, I'm talking about modest money here! Lol, post the particulars when this gets closer to committing the other party!
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    Quote Originally Posted by TriTexan View Post
    ???
    Cliffhanger?
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    Quote Originally Posted by TriTexan View Post
    ???
    I've been up all night can I get the abridged version?
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    Greg Good is a big name LSX porter but those claims aren't possible by simple physics. If he is simply getting IAT1 & 2 mixed up then it makes complete sense. I will not dispute the HP claims but simply the temps mentioned.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blubyu View Post
    Greg Good is a big name LSX porter but those claims aren't possible by simple physics. If he is simply getting IAT1 & 2 mixed up then it makes complete sense. I will not dispute the HP claims but simply the temps mentioned.
    I don't believe the 700+hp on 10lbs either.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blown376 View Post
    Thanks for stepping up to disprove(?) or at the very least, vet these claims. Hopefully, something can be weaned from thoroughly testing aggie's incredible results, even if repeatable numbers can't be matched to his setup. I'm sure that the community will benefit in some regard, to what extent though, that will be fully fleshed out.
    Of course, notwithstanding the extensive testing, I believe that the biggest hurdle to overcome at this point would be the legalese to be written up. To wit, does Good have any protection on his head design, would he be open to others replicating similar porting, would 98aggie sign anything forcing him to cover the costs of a failed vetting process (as this whole contest is essentially 98aggie vs the paying members of potentially two V forums), etc.
    I am truly excited about this undertaking and your commitment to "proof by repeatable testing" that I would have no hesitation to donate to the cause. Don't get too excited though, I'm talking about modest money here! Lol, post the particulars when this gets closer to committing the other party!
    Well I intentionally made a bigger deal out of it than I think it will be to actually disprove things. I actually suspect that will be fairly easy to tell the truth.
    Quote Originally Posted by CoppeR View Post
    I've been up all night can I get the abridged version?
    This IS the abridged version!
    Quote Originally Posted by blubyu View Post
    Greg Good is a big name LSX porter but those claims aren't possible by simple physics. If he is simply getting IAT1 & 2 mixed up then it makes complete sense. I will not dispute the HP claims but simply the temps mentioned.
    Greg is a Houston guy like me. His focus is largely on Vipers (previous Gen I think). He is actually REALLY good based on his reputation, but I've watched videos of him hand porting things and "precision" is the very last word I would use. I will admit I don't know if he's got new equipment and proper CNC systems. To me LME here in Houston appears to be 50 times more sophisticated and better equipped. I say this with caution because I have not see Greg's shop....just some vids of him supposedly hand porting LSA and TFS heads.
    Quote Originally Posted by VVVROOMTX View Post
    I don't believe the 700+hp on 10lbs either.
    Me either. That's between 825 and 875 crank, which is nearly 300hp more than stock with only 1 psi more boost.

    Now to be fair...Greg's work on Viper's does produce some amazing results. Numerous guys did get 200+ whp gains using his ported stock Viper heads. But those head ports were often done at the same time as cam swap and a bunch of other mods. But nearly 300 hp without a cam change? Not likely AT ALL.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TriTexan View Post
    Greg is a Houston guy like me. His focus is largely on Vipers (previous Gen I think). He is actually REALLY good based on his reputation, but I've watched videos of him hand porting things and "precision" is the very last word I would use. I will admit I don't know if he's got new equipment and proper CNC systems. To me LME here in Houston appears to be 50 times more sophisticated and better equipped. I say this with caution because I have not see Greg's shop....just some vids of him supposedly hand porting LSA and TFS heads.
    Sophistication and fancy equipment means nothing if you don't have the right hands/brains running it. Some of the most decorated porters work out of a junky backyard garage.

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    I have seen better work out of hand porting then CNC at times. The CNC is only as good as the program its running.

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    I propose a simple answer. He forgot to change his IAT2 unit from Celsius to Fahrenheit....

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    Quote Originally Posted by blubyu View Post
    Sophistication and fancy equipment means nothing if you don't have the right hands/brains running it. Some of the most decorated porters work out of a junky backyard garage.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lt1z View Post
    I have seen better work out of hand porting then CNC at times. The CNC is only as good as the program its running.
    Exactly why I was cautious with my statements. Reserving judgment. Plus the guy does have a solid rep and some hellacious results porting Viper heads.

    Still...300hp crank gain on a V2 with only 1 psi increase in boost AND IAT2's under 120F?
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    Quote Originally Posted by TriTexan View Post
    Exactly why I was cautious with my statements. Reserving judgment. Plus the guy does have a solid rep and some hellacious results porting Viper heads.

    Still...300hp crank gain on a V2 with only 1 psi increase in boost AND IAT2's under 120F?
    the psi increase should not be something that weighs in. IF total cfm being moved through the blower is higher and the restriction in the blower is less, then only having a slight increase in boost after a pulley swap and port is plausible (I havent read his thread, so im guessing with the mods). Its the same thing as when people go with LTs, lose 1-1.5 psi and still make +20 hp over their baseline.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FRCFED View Post
    the psi increase should not be something that weighs in. IF total cfm being moved through the blower is higher and the restriction in the blower is less, then only having a slight increase in boost after a pulley swap and port is plausible (I havent read his thread, so im guessing with the mods). Its the same thing as when people go with LTs, lose 1-1.5 psi and still make +20 hp over their baseline.
    The nicer blower ports I have seen offered generally raise boost pressure slightly with these stock blowers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blubyu View Post
    The nicer blower ports I have seen offered generally raise boost pressure slightly with these stock blowers.
    Logically, it the blower is able to draw in more air then boost should go up - unless you have made it also easier for the air to flow from the blower exit port into the engine. Seems very straightforward to me.

    Why would boost go DOWN?
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    Quote Originally Posted by FRCFED View Post
    the psi increase should not be something that weighs in. IF total cfm being moved through the blower is higher and the restriction in the blower is less, then only having a slight increase in boost after a pulley swap and port is plausible (I havent read his thread, so im guessing with the mods). Its the same thing as when people go with LTs, lose 1-1.5 psi and still make +20 hp over their baseline.
    I think what you are missing is that boost is measured AFTER the blower, not inside or thru the blower. If the blower is forcing more CFM into the lid and thru the intercooler and into the runners, boost has to be higher all other things equal.

    The goal of a blower port is to make the inlet and outlet flow better and at the same time retain the tight rotor clearances so no air slips by...
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    Quote Originally Posted by FRCFED View Post
    the psi increase should not be something that weighs in. IF total cfm being moved through the blower is higher and the restriction in the blower is less, then only having a slight increase in boost after a pulley swap and port is plausible (I havent read his thread, so im guessing with the mods). Its the same thing as when people go with LTs, lose 1-1.5 psi and still make +20 hp over their baseline.
    So far no one understands this concept. This past build is down 3.2psi over what it was before. It was 595rwhp previous with just the bolt ons stock cam, blower and heads. All was changed was the ported blower and LSA heads. Guess the owner will need to go to houston to dyno just to show it probablly makes close to 780-790 there.

    Got 2 more builds about to be finished, pushing them a little harder so expect similar results. While controlling IATs. It wont be as good as the 712rwhp build but we are spinning the blower hard, so more heat is expected.


    Quote Originally Posted by VVVROOMTX View Post
    I don't believe the 700+hp on 10lbs either.
    This is with the ported set up, I think most people with a 10" lower and stock upper see 14-15psi?

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    The claims are bullshit. What do I win?
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    Even better...I'll be in Houston running the wannaGOFAST event in November. I'll see your miracle cars there if you want to actually run them.
    2009 Black Raven Sedan - Loaded with Recaro's | 6MT |Vengeance Racing | ADV.1 | JPM Coachworks | 1,215whp/1,077wtq - Hidden Content | Hidden Content

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    Quote Originally Posted by rsutton1223 View Post
    Even better...I'll be in Houston running the wannaGOFAST event in November. I'll see your miracle cars there if you want to actually run them.
    OH SHIT. SHOTS FIRED!

    Lol, I WANT to believe Aggie! But I also want to believe I drive the World's fastest car, have a 13" dong, am married to 6 Norwegian bikini models, and I make 700 million dollars a year . That's the problem..REALITY IS A THING, and in reality I'm saying there's no fugging way his IAT2's are that in check. I hope I'm proven wrong; truly.
    Last edited by Typhoon43; 09-14-2015 at 01:05 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typhoon43 View Post
    OH SHIT. SHOTS FIRED.
    LOL! No I think this was worse for shots fired.

    N0P0WER CTS-V is Calling Out the State of Texas!
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsutton1223 View Post
    LOL! No I think this was worse for shots fired.

    N0P0WER CTS-V is Calling Out the State of Texas!
    HOLY SHIT.. NUKES LAUNCHED! hahahahah!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Typhoon43 View Post
    HOLY SHIT.. NUKES LAUNCHED! hahahahah!
    Probably not smart on my part. Even I know you don't fuck with Texas.
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    Total BS, he will never prove shit cause its crap
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    New setup:
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    10.19@137 1.50 60 foot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TriTexan View Post
    I think what you are missing is that boost is measured AFTER the blower, not inside or thru the blower. If the blower is forcing more CFM into the lid and thru the intercooler and into the runners, boost has to be higher all other things equal.

    The goal of a blower port is to make the inlet and outlet flow better and at the same time retain the tight rotor clearances so no air slips by...
    Let me ask a dumb question first, when you guys refer to runners your talking about the outlets into the heads, correct?

    And if the boost reference is on the back side of the blower after compression (is it measured under the inter-cooler in the manifold/valley area?) if you lessened the restriction of the runners and your heads are efficient enough would it not lower the pressure measured until it hit the next restriction? I thought also with these blowers you can only move so much air per revolution (not including losses for heat expansion/friction/etc) and the only way to increase the volume is to spin them quicker. I would think really all your doing with the port on the snout and front end of the blower is to reduce friction=heat which really just has to do with increasing the efficiency of the blower not physically increasing the amount of air you can move in one rotation.

    If for example you kept blower RPM the same and then ported the piss out of the blower/snout/runners/etc the only reason i can see of why the boost pressure would not drop would be because your heads can't flow the volume on the intake side and if that is not the issue then your exhaust has a restriction.

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    This cock makes my thread hurt.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FRCFED View Post
    Let me ask a dumb question first, when you guys refer to runners your talking about the outlets into the heads, correct?

    And if the boost reference is on the back side of the blower after compression (is it measured under the inter-cooler in the manifold/valley area?) if you lessened the restriction of the runners and your heads are efficient enough would it not lower the pressure measured until it hit the next restriction? I thought also with these blowers you can only move so much air per revolution (not including losses for heat expansion/friction/etc) and the only way to increase the volume is to spin them quicker. I would think really all your doing with the port on the snout and front end of the blower is to reduce friction=heat which really just has to do with increasing the efficiency of the blower not physically increasing the amount of air you can move in one rotation.

    If for example you kept blower RPM the same and then ported the piss out of the blower/snout/runners/etc the only reason i can see of why the boost pressure would not drop would be because your heads can't flow the volume on the intake side and if that is not the issue then your exhaust has a restriction.
    When we say "runners" that's this part of the supercharger (circled in red)

    This funnels the pressurized air down to the intake of the heads. Essentially just think of it like the supercharger has a building kind of Hi-ram intake.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Calling out 98aggie's  STAGGERING IAT2 claims!!-capture2.jpg
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  31. #30
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    Numbers are adjusted to reflect crank horsepower?


    Sent from my local E85 station.
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    2010 Thunder Gray sedan, A6, ebony recaros, LPE 650 (well, sort of), AR headers with (blown out) cats, 22" Magnaflow resonators, 9.1/2.5" pulleys, ID1000's, ZL1 Lid, CNC ported blower, WCCH heads, Mamo Motorsports custom cam, 102mm TPIS TB, DSteck Flex Fuel module, ZR1 HX pump, custom HX tube set, Fluidyne 3X HX,4.5" intake tube, FlyingV installation


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