Gonna go test drive some "other" cars - who's got a Tesla, McLaren, Porsche, Audi, etc? - Page 6
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Thread: Gonna go test drive some "other" cars - who's got a Tesla, McLaren, Porsche, Audi, etc?

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    He's (LA) talking about irresponsible drivers who think they will have a few drinks and rather than taxi/uber get someone else to drive...just let the car drive them home...yeah, that will be the safe/smart thing.

    At least, that's what I think of, or at least, in some capacity.

    Never underestimate how dumb people can get. Ever try to give someone like a cashier, maybe not the high-up on the food chain type, some change to make it an even dollar, quarter, or whatever, after he/she already punched in amount on the register? Ever see the look on their face, like, what am I supposed to do with this?

    SO many people these days can't do math...not talking trig or calc, but algebra, even subtraction with, godforbid, fractions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karch View Post
    He's (LA) talking about irresponsible drivers who think they will have a few drinks and rather than taxi/uber get someone else to drive...just let the car drive them home...yeah, that will be the safe/smart thing.

    At least, that's what I think of, or at least, in some capacity.

    Never underestimate how dumb people can get. Ever try to give someone like a cashier, maybe not the high-up on the food chain type, some change to make it an even dollar, quarter, or whatever, after he/she already punched in amount on the register? Ever see the look on their face, like, what am I supposed to do with this?

    SO many people these days can't do math...not talking trig or calc, but algebra, even subtraction with, godforbid, fractions.
    I know where he was going...but that's ALWAYS true of those kinds of idiots. They will find a way to screw up...if not cars they can screw up whatever you give them. But I am not so dense as to know they arent there. I just wanted to defend that cars dont cause stupidity. They can make it worse. But those same issues can be caused 40 different things...

    The Cashier Story is one of my favorite examples. When I was a kid, you had to pass a math test to get a job as a cashier.

    And you had to know this skill called "counting back". The point was to - in effect - reconcile tbe cost of goods bought PLUS your change back to the original amount you gave the cashier. Nowadays cashiers have no clue what this is for...but they've heard it done so they dumbly replicate it. But since they've never been trained they don't count back up...they just "count your change" by reading out whatever the cash register said should be given.
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  3. #153
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    Maybe it's the safety engineer in me, but there is so much we do in designing safety products that is based on idiotproofing, at least in the North American market.

    Nhtsa and the OEM's ensure we follow strict specifications into seat belts and airbags so that the end user in an accident doesn't have to do anything but hope they live.

    For example........ a passenger side airbag MUST not inflict injury IF a 2-10 year old child is unbelted and laying on or against the dashboard and the airbag deploys in a crash..... I will let that awesome spec soak in for awhile......


    The point is, autonomous technology is not idiotproof yet. Also nhtsa does not regulate or have standards of specs yet. Therefore I think it's fundamentally wrong and unethical that Tesla beta tests this technology on our streets at the risk of everyone on the road. Musk is extremely aggressive, but using his customers and the general public as crash test dummies.

    His disclaimer is selling it as a semi autonomous technology that suggests the driver keep their hands on the wheel. But the danger is tech geeks will push this technology beyond semi autonomous to thinking its ok for full autonomous. Tesla does not shut the autonomous driving off at high speeds it can't handle, just being straight up, the tech is not advanced enough YET.

    All that said, autonomous is the future of safety. It is coming and it's still a few years off to be sorted out. All the OEM's and suppliers are fully vested in making this happen, not just Tesla. Just the other OEM's have a lot more to lose if the technology creates lawsuits. Tesla has nothing to lose. They are a small upstart company.

    As far as a double standard, I am well aware that high performance and highly modified high HP cars become a huge responsibility and deserve massive respect in operating. They are extremely dangerous in the wrong hands.

    Mustang drivers are the perfect example.

    My point is to be aware that Tesla as a company is testing the bounds of safety in a currently unregulated technology. I am stunned nhtsa hasn't shut them down.






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    Quote Originally Posted by larry arizona View Post
    Maybe it's the safety engineer in me, but there is so much we do in designing safety products that is based on idiotproofing, at least in the North American market.

    Nhtsa and the OEM's ensure we follow strict specifications into seat belts and airbags so that the end user in an accident doesn't have to do anything but hope they live.

    For example........ a passenger side airbag MUST not inflict injury IF a 2-10 year old child is unbelted and laying on or against the dashboard and the airbag deploys in a crash..... I will let that awesome spec soak in for awhile......


    The point is, autonomous technology is not idiotproof yet. Also nhtsa does not regulate or have standards of specs yet. Therefore I think it's fundamentally wrong and unethical that Tesla beta tests this technology on our streets at the risk of everyone on the road. Musk is extremely aggressive, but using his customers and the general public as crash test dummies.

    His disclaimer is selling it as a semi autonomous technology that suggests the driver keep their hands on the wheel. But the danger is tech geeks will push this technology beyond semi autonomous to thinking its ok for full autonomous. Tesla does not shut the autonomous driving off at high speeds it can't handle, just being straight up, the tech is not advanced enough YET.

    All that said, autonomous is the future of safety. It is coming and it's still a few years off to be sorted out. All the OEM's and suppliers are fully vested in making this happen, not just Tesla. Just the other OEM's have a lot more to lose if the technology creates lawsuits. Tesla has nothing to lose. They are a small upstart company.

    As far as a double standard, I am well aware that high performance and highly modified high HP cars become a huge responsibility and deserve massive respect in operating. They are extremely dangerous in the wrong hands.

    Mustang drivers are the perfect example.

    My point is to be aware that Tesla as a company is testing the bounds of safety in a currently unregulated technology. I am stunned nhtsa hasn't shut them down.






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    NOW I am with you 100%!

    I too agree we have stupidly strict rules in some cases (like the example you cited) and way too loose ones elsewhere (my pet peeves are exceptions for commercial vehicles, especially when the real danger is to other drivers because of the size, shape, or design of the larger vehicle).

    I would probably say that we - the public - have been crash test dummies for cars as long as cars have been around. The first cars had no safety features really. Later on we got seatbelts and such. Then airbags and ABS.

    And I bet we all agree that true idiot-proofing is a lofty and probably flawed goal. I'm usually more on the George Carlin side here...let nature kill off a few idiots. Good for the gene pool. But I also realize that's a harsh view and we SHOULD protect the innocent against the idiocy of others. So that leaves us where we are now...

    And I too am stunned there isn't more regulation. But I'm also glad there isn't in a way. My personal view is that this current openness, while perhaps a little unnerving, is also helping rapidly advance the greatest safety revolution in cars ever. The aspiration of EVERY transportation system has often revolved around removing the driver/operator.

    So I'm trapped here. While I wish it would advance a bit more, I also feel like the real world experience of driving on a live road with live drivers and seeing how the computers do - with the understanding that, just like human drivers, mistakes will be made - will end up SAVING more net lives long term.

    I'm distilling it down to the math. How many people would be saved each year if this technology WERE broadly in use for the more "mundane" everyday driving?

    My back-of-the-napkin math tells me that each year is worth tens of thousands of deaths. So if regulation causes a 3 year delay - just as a hypothetical here - we paid...I dunno...100,000 lives for that delay.

    IOW LA...there's both a cost to letting this tech out too soon. EXACTLY as you said...its not technically "ready". But if you were to take into account the probably cost in lives and injury of waiting for it to be perfect, people will due at the hands of human error in the meantime.

    Fundamentally its rough on our brains because we don't want to accept the reality that we can't save everyone. The best we can do is find the right balance.

    I do think it's the safety engineer in you that gives you your perspective. And that is PRECISELY why a guy like you is the right choice for your role/job/profession. You are passionate about it and that means a lot. To make great cars we NEED guys that are passionate about ALL the major aspects. You need safety guys and horsepower guys and guys that know style and what makes a car look awesome. You need guys that push for more functionality and guys crazy about an awesome car stereo to bring us the $6000 Naim or Bang & Olufsen options. And so on.

    In the end we - as a society overall - are in a very unique situation with regards to autonomous cars. One that has some distinct tradeoffs all around.

    While it makes me uneasy, I do kinda feel like the current path of allowing car companies to push the envelope here could actually be the safest choice net overall. I know that flies counter to traditional safety and risk management thinking. But I think there's a mathematical reality here too that can't be overlooked.

    I think because a lot of this revolution is happening at a very high technical level - using massive data sets, AI, sensors and so on - the potential quantum leap in front of us is not well understood and appreciated. I happen to have much greater exposure to these technologies so I understand them the way LA understands airbags and seatbelts. So perhaps my perspective is skewed.

    I think given just a small amount of additional time, and a little latitude and encouragement, we will see HUGE leaps in this space. I'm betting (literally with my own money) that the pace of advancement, rate of adoption, and more will all happen much faster than most people anticipate.

    For now...please keep both hands on the wheel. I'm about to drive to work amongst all the other knuckleheads and Mustang owners LOL!!
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    I was driving by UCLA during the week before school starts, and some young student was texting, walked across my path on a curved road, didn't look, and I had to swerve and hit the brakes to slow down while honking the horn.

    I told my son, who was just starting to drive, had I hit her, it would have been her fault, entirely. You have to be aware at all times, as a driver and a pedestrian...then I said "natural selection".


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    Drives me nuts watching people drive using lane assist, they weave like drunks.


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    Quote Originally Posted by larry arizona View Post
    Drives me nuts watching people drive using lane assist, they weave like drunks.


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    Maybe it's a good way to get the drunks off the road?? Get pulled over for swerving when relying on technology to get them home. I hate my lane keep, I just want the seat t vibrate, not turn the wheel

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    I hate all driving assist features! With that said give me a p100D and I will love every damn part of it haha.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mprtetr View Post
    Maybe it's a good way to get the drunks off the road?? Get pulled over for swerving when relying on technology to get them home. I hate my lane keep, I just want the seat t vibrate, not turn the wheel
    might be a setting for it?
    when I had a loaner I had it where nothing happened, think it was in 2015

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    Looking forward to seeing your P100D review and subsequent order . You're also welcome to try on my "old school" Roadster, just say when!
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4Vendetta View Post
    Looking forward to seeing your P100D review and subsequent order . You're also welcome to try on my "old school" Roadster, just say when!
    Howdy workmate! U still lurking here eh?

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    I just spent the last hour reading up on this haha. Recently, when I decided I needed a 'real' back seat and that I could get 'enough' for my mildly-modded V2 coupe, I was in a similar boat.
    • I have a fast/race car that I can drive on the street, so outright performance isn't the end-all/be-all for me.
    • I often partners/customers/etc out for lunch or between offices, so respectability is key, but wasn't trying to go over-the-top pretentious (turns out lots of people think a $100k Cadillac is pretentious haha).
    • I get enjoyment from actually driving my cars, so it's got to be practical enough to drive/park/etc just about anywhere I'd go.
    • I need more steering feel and driving excitement than a M5 or E63 can offer

    A modded V2 is a potent machine, but I was ready to place value on a 'nicer' car, as the subjective sum of all things that make myself/car people say "oooh, I like that". Exterior, interior, acceleration, handling, braking, steering feel, etc. Cost of ownership is a concern, warranty only as it applies to how I mod/drive the car, and was open to something like a Bentley pre-owned, otherwise new stuff.

    Drove a Tesla P90D and liked the around-town acceleration and the 'techiness' cache of it, but was not a fan of the interior. Feels/looks like a minivan with no tunnel, seats were OK but not great, and aside from the screens, very plain. Freeway pulls were not inspiring, and there's no modding it. Kind of happy not to drop $130k on one.
    Panamera is a non-starter for me, don't like the look.
    M5 with aftermarket turbos was an option, didn't end up liking the way they drive enough to spend that kinda cheese and still worry about no warranty.
    E63 just doesn't do it for me, kinda for the same reasons.
    Hellcats aren't in the same league IMO, missing the refinement (among other things).
    The RS7 was a contender for sure, but I can't get over the looks (and the price tag for the Performance model) - the back end is just awful. S8 is boring, as you said.
    Jag XJR is cool, but not in the same class I don't think. Didn't drive one.
    Bentley Continental GT was what I thought I'd like best, but couldn't get over the idea that no one I know would take me seriously driving a Bentley. Even though I think I'd enjoy owning it, and could probably own it for a few years without losing my ass, I couldn't get there mentally. Also, idea of repairs out of warranty on a car where you're counting on a high residual value scare me a little bit.

    Ended up getting a V3 carbon edition for a pretty solid deal, and it hits enough of my value points to keep me happy - for what I'm paying there isn't really another option in the same class, and if I decide it needs another 200hp to keep up with the Jones's, that's on the table (albeit without the warranty probably). Definitely has the fit/finish of the Euro stuff IMO, and looks + sounds + drives pretty damned well. Too much of a sleeper for me in stock trim, but I'm sure eventually I'll fix that.

    I've admired your deductive reasoning in your posts for years Tri, not trying to threadjack, just trying to add some flavor from what I see as a similar process from a similar-minded dude
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karch View Post
    I was driving by UCLA during the week before school starts, and some young student was texting, walked across my path on a curved road, didn't look, and I had to swerve and hit the brakes to slow down while honking the horn.

    I told my son, who was just starting to drive, had I hit her, it would have been her fault, entirely. You have to be aware at all times, as a driver and a pedestrian...then I said "natural selection".


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    My son lost a very good friend back in 2011. He (my son) was the President of the B-boy club at James Madison University and was holding practice late one night. A friend offered to pick up dinner for the group. She was wearing dark clothes, wearing head phones and on her phone. Walked in front of a bus on campus and was killed. The call no parent wants or expects to receive when they send their young daughter off to college.

    Life is full of consequences. We have our senses for a reason. They're there to protect us. Knowingly giving up your hearing, not using your sight and preoccupying your other faculties on the mistaken belief that the "village" that got you this far in life will somehow take you the rest of the way.......well it just doesn't work that way.

    Sorry for getting so dark. Went to see Manchester by the sea and haven't been the same since. Fucking movie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TriTexan View Post
    Howdy workmate! U still lurking here eh?
    Just the few times a year when I feel like stepping out of my safe space!

    You probably already know this, but there is a Tesla showroom and service center in Spring. A new one opened in The Woodlands just last week as well. Either will give you a test drive, but you have to schedule ahead of time - https://www.tesla.com/models/drive. The reasoning they gave me is that since they can't legally conduct a sales operation in Texas, you can't just walk in and ask for a drive. Scheduling it through corporate somehow gets around this.

    gsxrjjordan's impressions of the P90D aren't off. Coming from the Audis, the Tesla interior is going to feel "unfinished". 0-60 acceleration will numb your face, but at highway speeds, there isn't much difference between the P and sub-P models. Still an awesome package though. We have an 85D as our family car and it's more than enough.
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    Plugless - no more plugging in..."quick charge"'. I installed one over a year ago with no issues. https://www.pluglesspower.com/

    Quote Originally Posted by larry arizona View Post
    20amp 220/240 is the way to go, charging 110 sucks.




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    Quote Originally Posted by scottcane View Post
    Plugless - no more plugging in..."quick charge"'. I installed one over a year ago with no issues. https://www.pluglesspower.com/
    damn those things aint cheap, you are a baller for sure!

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    My problem with Musk and Tesla in general is that because he's been so innovative, people are confusing his brilliance with integrity.

    Anyone who makes all the locks and programs all the keys should be heavily scrutinized - whether a pedal is depressed by electronics or a fleshy foot would pale in comparison to what "the company" could make it look like after the fact.

    The autonomy, the control, the data acquisition- it's like expecting privacy from Google when you have 7 smart devices and three email accounts that have live data streams going through their servers at all times.

    We might as well put Facebook in charge of our electronic medical records.

    But, I'm the kind of guy that skips onstar and leaves my cellphone at home when I need to bury a dead hooker.

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    Agreed. I compartmentalize Musk's innovation against his other traits. The two are NOT the same. But that's true of all historical greats to some extent.

    Oh...and hit me up next time. I can set you up with some hookers you don't have to kill afterwards! Maybe that's the solution you need, not more privacy...

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    Quote Originally Posted by TriTexan View Post
    Agreed. I compartmentalize Musk's innovation against his other traits. The two are NOT the same. But that's true of all historical greats to some extent.

    Oh...and hit me up next time. I can set you up with some hookers you don't have to kill afterwards! Maybe that's the solution you need, not more privacy...

    Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
    I guess I like getting two different thrills for the same low price.

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    Quote Originally Posted by random84 View Post

    But, I'm the kind of guy that skips onstar and leaves my cellphone at home when I need to bury a dead hooker.

    Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
    That's solid reasoning!!!

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    The problem with the Z06 is you live in TX and if you are going to track it all, you will be very disappointed 1.5 laps in when the car goes into limp home mode because of the heat. If you are just going to pimp it around no issues. Pisses me of that GM can not take the time to make this right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by random84 View Post

    But, I'm the kind of guy that skips onstar and leaves my cellphone at home when I need to bury a dead hooker.

    Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
    Then how do you get the last picture with her before you dump the body? Do you have a Polaroid you rascal you...
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    Quote Originally Posted by t.j.t View Post
    Then how do you get the last picture with her before you dump the body? Do you have a Polaroid you rascal you...
    No digital media. Just "momentos"

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    Quote Originally Posted by random84 View Post
    No digital media. Just "momentos"

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    Haven't looked back in the thread Tri, but have you thought about a new Alfa Giulia Quadrifolio?
    2016 Jungle Green Metallic Chevy SS - Sunroof/Spare/Stick
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottcane View Post
    Plugless - no more plugging in..."quick charge"'. I installed one over a year ago with no issues. https://www.pluglesspower.com/
    Nikola would approve.
    Currently driving my wife crazy
    Sold: 2010 CTS-V M6 Sedan blk/blk

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    Tri buy a car already! LOL
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    BURNOUT KING! Hidden Content !

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    MASSIVE BURNOUT! Hidden Content

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    Quote Originally Posted by gsxrjjordan View Post
    I just spent the last hour reading up on this haha. Recently, when I decided I needed a 'real' back seat and that I could get 'enough' for my mildly-modded V2 coupe, I was in a similar boat.
    • I have a fast/race car that I can drive on the street, so outright performance isn't the end-all/be-all for me.
    • I often partners/customers/etc out for lunch or between offices, so respectability is key, but wasn't trying to go over-the-top pretentious (turns out lots of people think a $100k Cadillac is pretentious haha).
    • I get enjoyment from actually driving my cars, so it's got to be practical enough to drive/park/etc just about anywhere I'd go.
    • I need more steering feel and driving excitement than a M5 or E63 can offer

    A modded V2 is a potent machine, but I was ready to place value on a 'nicer' car, as the subjective sum of all things that make myself/car people say "oooh, I like that". Exterior, interior, acceleration, handling, braking, steering feel, etc. Cost of ownership is a concern, warranty only as it applies to how I mod/drive the car, and was open to something like a Bentley pre-owned, otherwise new stuff.

    Drove a Tesla P90D and liked the around-town acceleration and the 'techiness' cache of it, but was not a fan of the interior. Feels/looks like a minivan with no tunnel, seats were OK but not great, and aside from the screens, very plain. Freeway pulls were not inspiring, and there's no modding it. Kind of happy not to drop $130k on one.
    Panamera is a non-starter for me, don't like the look.
    M5 with aftermarket turbos was an option, didn't end up liking the way they drive enough to spend that kinda cheese and still worry about no warranty.
    E63 just doesn't do it for me, kinda for the same reasons.
    Hellcats aren't in the same league IMO, missing the refinement (among other things).
    The RS7 was a contender for sure, but I can't get over the looks (and the price tag for the Performance model) - the back end is just awful. S8 is boring, as you said.
    Jag XJR is cool, but not in the same class I don't think. Didn't drive one.
    Bentley Continental GT was what I thought I'd like best, but couldn't get over the idea that no one I know would take me seriously driving a Bentley. Even though I think I'd enjoy owning it, and could probably own it for a few years without losing my ass, I couldn't get there mentally. Also, idea of repairs out of warranty on a car where you're counting on a high residual value scare me a little bit.

    Ended up getting a V3 carbon edition for a pretty solid deal, and it hits enough of my value points to keep me happy - for what I'm paying there isn't really another option in the same class, and if I decide it needs another 200hp to keep up with the Jones's, that's on the table (albeit without the warranty probably). Definitely has the fit/finish of the Euro stuff IMO, and looks + sounds + drives pretty damned well. Too much of a sleeper for me in stock trim, but I'm sure eventually I'll fix that.

    I've admired your deductive reasoning in your posts for years Tri, not trying to threadjack, just trying to add some flavor from what I see as a similar process from a similar-minded dude
    No threadjack at all - great post and I'm sincerely flattered. Love hanging out here because there's no shortage of smart, knowledgeable, sophisticated, and respectable guys that I truly do admire.

    Quote Originally Posted by cvp33 View Post
    My son lost a very good friend back in 2011. He (my son) was the President of the B-boy club at James Madison University and was holding practice late one night. A friend offered to pick up dinner for the group. She was wearing dark clothes, wearing head phones and on her phone. Walked in front of a bus on campus and was killed. The call no parent wants or expects to receive when they send their young daughter off to college.

    Life is full of consequences. We have our senses for a reason. They're there to protect us. Knowingly giving up your hearing, not using your sight and preoccupying your other faculties on the mistaken belief that the "village" that got you this far in life will somehow take you the rest of the way.......well it just doesn't work that way.

    Sorry for getting so dark. Went to see Manchester by the sea and haven't been the same since. Fucking movie.

    Jane Hwang, James Madison University student, killed | WJLA
    I've lost a few family members as well - some well before they should have died. Events like that certainly shape how we view the world. And those events have ha a serious impact on my decision-making process. I'm much more likely to spend money on something that brings me joy or fulfillment. And not just "things" that cost money - anything that results in a more complete life, in getting done everything one might want to do before we "run out of time" is what I am talking about. Regarding cars - most people keep a car for a long time, conserving money and such. That makes total sense in many ways. But if you knew - totally hypothetically - that you had only 3 or 4 years left, and you've never owned a Porsche - maybe you missed out. Doesn't have to be a brand new 911 Turbo S or Panamera Turbo S at $200k. But Porsche's are very different cars and you might find just as much joy from owning a used 911 Turbo from a few years back.

    ANYway - there's something to be said for stepping out and doing something new, trying something new. Before your time runs out. I totally get that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slizzo View Post
    Haven't looked back in the thread Tri, but have you thought about a new Alfa Giulia Quadrifolio?
    A what?

    Ho Lee Fuk - I'm embarrassed to say I had no clue this existed. But a quick look - 2.9 liter turbo Ferrari engine delivering 500+hp? Eight speed auto, 7:32 Nurburgring lap time? That thing looks like a hell of a lot of machine for $80k fully loaded! It looks like it's going to put M3/M4 ATS-V and a host of other mid-size hyper-sports cars to complete shame.

    DEFINITELY have to go check on out - THANKS for putting this in the mix. Looks like an incredible car. Now will it be large enough and functional enough? Who knows - but it looks like an amazing car at first glance! Again - props for adding it to the mix!!


    Quote Originally Posted by buddyg View Post
    Tri buy a car already! LOL
    Dude - cars to me are like women when you are single. There's absolutely nothing wrong with sleeping around and enjoying yourself. No reason to marry the first car that lets you do a burnout!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slizzo View Post
    Haven't looked back in the thread Tri, but have you thought about a new Alfa Giulia Quadrifolio?
    And if I had a 3 or 4 car garage, there is NO DOUBT I'd order one of these sight unseen and just stick it in there to play with when time and weather permitted!
    2014 OBM/Titanium CTS-V Wagon "The Blue Whale"
    Auto, All Options, Interior 100% stock.
    Custom touches here and there...needs driver mod badly!
    7xx to 8xx rwhp

    2015 Audi SQ5 Prestige Glacier White Metallic + Gloss Piano Black trim "Snow White"
    Black leather interior, 8 Spd ZF Auto, all options
    Pulley and tune
    21" RS6 wheels /Super Sport 285's all around / Lowered on KW's

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    Quote Originally Posted by TriTexan View Post
    And if I had a 3 or 4 car garage, there is NO DOUBT I'd order one of these sight unseen and just stick it in there to play with when time and weather permitted!
    Not sure if it is on YouTube yet, but Johnny Lieberman and Jason Cammisa just did a head to head to head to head of the new Alfa, the ATS-V, the new M4 with competition pack and the C63 AMG.

    The Alfa won against them all. Only complaint about the car with them was the transmission at slow speeds in traffic. A common complaint with dual clutch transmissions I hear.


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